[time-nuts] Beginner's time reference

[GandalfG8 at aol.com]

In a message dated 12/12/2009 13:00:21 GMT Standard Time,  
mikes at flatsurface.com writes:

At 07:13  AM 12/12/2009, GandalfG8 at aol.com wrote...
>I think you might be missing  the point, the OED definition that you 
>quote
>does not define  time itself as an absolute measurable entity, and what  
>time
>nuts  measure are, yet again, the intervals between  events.

Define "absolute measurable quantity," and give an example of  something 
(not countable, like fingers on a hand) which is.

What  units do you "measure" in? Certainly not most SI units, which vary 
by  reference frame (time, length, mass, current, luminous intensity), 
and/or  are simple counts (mass effectively, mole) - which leaves 
temperature. How  do you measure temperature without using any of the 
other SI  units?

How does one "measure," if not by comparison? Is pi measurable?  Can I 
measure the circumference of a circle of diameter 1? How?

Or  are you focused on "absolute?" If so, how is time any different than  
distance? You measure between the points you want to measure. I can  
measure the length of a bar of platinum-iridium, and call that 1 meter,  
or I can measure the distance a photon travels in 1/299 792 458 of a  
second. Is one somehow less real than the other?
----------------
Only "focussed" on absolute inasmuch as that was what I was referring to in 
 the first place and you're still mising the point.
 
Time, as a "distance" if you wish between two points, is measurable as the  
duration of the interval, no problem with that, but whereas your  
platinum-iridium bar continues to exist outside of your measurement of its  
properties the same cannot be said of any particular interval between  events.
--------------------



>Considering time as a dimension isn't quite so bad but the  point I 
>was
>attempting to make, perhaps not very well, was that  many folks choose 
>to,  or
>want to, treat time itself as  something that exists in a physical 
>form, such
>as a river for  example, and hence, again just by way of example,  
>something
>that  we might consider travelling backwards and  forwards along if 
>only we
>could find  the right  boat.

Einstein didn't claim time didn't exist - he linked it with  space. Time 
and distance are both relative to the frame of reference.  Einstein had 
no problem making frequent reference to the speed  (distance/time) of 
light. When he said "Time is an illusion," it was in  reference to time 
separated from space. That doesn't mean it doesn't  exist, or isn't 
physical.
----------
Perhaps I should have been a bit more specific. One quote, which was  
actually attributed to Freeman Dyson when discussing the difference in approach  
between Poincare and Einstein commented....
"His version of the theory was simpler and more elegant. There was no  
absolute space and time and there was no ether"..........
 
It was only an off the cuff comment anyway so not particularly  relevant to 
my argument as such, but please do explain in what  way time itself might 
be "physical"
--------------



This is nothing new. The GPS system was designed with the  understanding 
that the satellites exist in a different frame of reference  than the 
receivers. Yet, it works, because we measure time and  mathematically 
adjust for the different reference frames.

Seems to  me you're just being pedantic. It's like claiming Newtonian 
physics is  wrong, even though it works perfectly well for 99.99% of 
what it's used  for.
----------
Call me pedantic if you wish, but it has nothing at all to do with  
claiming that Newtonian physics is wrong, which I'm not, even though that  it can 
have its limitations.
 
I'm sorry you can't, or won't, understand but the ability to measure  
intervals between events does not in itself demonstrate the existence of  time as 
any kind of physical entity.
If we can only define time in terms of the interval between events then so  
be it, but isn't that just where we came in?
 
Is it possible that flatsurface might be synonymous  with flatearth?:-)
 
regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR