[time-nuts] 10811 crystal orientation

[Don Latham]

Thanks. Tom.  Glad to see the references.
I've some experience with clock time difference, as I showed an astonishing 
number of years ago that the phase changes between two clocks as measured by 
their respective LORAN-C signals was due to changes in the atmospheric index 
of refraction for 100 KHz radio waves rather than some wierd effect of 
general relativity.
Maybe some similar inattention to Occam's Razor was responsible for the 
shift associated with the eclipse. I will be observing this month's eclipse 
in China. Unfortunately, I will not have an assembly of atomic clocks to 
check. I'll look at my watch :-).
Solar eclipses do have an effect on the earth's "fair-weather" electric 
field; I have measured it. This is due to an effect on local boundary-layer 
air motions very close to the surface from loss of solar heating.
I can see absolutely no reason for a change in atomic clock behavior, 
however, if it is carefully shielded from this temperature pulse. Maybe we 
should also check during the next Grand Conjunction just in case.
Don

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <iovane at inwind.it>
To: "time-nuts" <time-nuts at febo.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 crystal orientation


> You are right, Tom, there are two mixed topics.
>
> On the on-topic subject, instead of making tests to measure the frequency
> dependence on orientation, It would be much more interesting looking at
> possible ADEV dependences on orientation, particularily for small tau (the
> bottom of the curve). I can't do the test myself now, but would be pleased
> to see it done. For someone here it should be easy. I suggest comparing
> the measurements made with the crystal on the horizontal plane vs a
> vertical plane.
>
> On the pseudo-science subject, I would recall that the experiment you
> pointed us to (null result) was made in Germany for NASA under NASA 
> invitation.
> The results of the tests are in conflict with previous tests made in China 
> by
> S.W.Zhou -cesium clocks changed rate- and known to Nasa (I gave the link 
> some
> posts back), and the matter is not yet solved. Maybe time-nuts could help 
> in
> the process of understanding what happened.
>
> Antonio I8IOV
>
> tvb wrote:
>
>> > Agreed. Has anyone done the crucial experiment? establish stats, rotate
>> > assembly, establish stats, etc? Should be able to measure at least if
>> > there is an effect, and also if it is present, an approximate 
>> > magnitude...
>> > Don
>>
>> Hi Don,
>>
>> There are two rather different topics here.
>>
>> One is do crystal oscillators change frequency when they
>> are turned. The answer to that is yes. This gravitational
>> acceleration effect is rather huge, parts in ten to the 9th
>> or so, and anyone can see this. This is why you never
>> touch, bump, or move, or rotate a laboratory frequency
>> standard (this includes GPSDO and cesium standards).
>>
>> The other question is what happens to quartz crystals or
>> pendulum clocks or werewolves during a solar eclipse.
>> This is the possible pseudo-science topic, although I do
>> applaud anyone who carefully looks into it. A recent and
>> good example of such an experiment is described here:
>>
>> "Effect of the 1999 Solar Eclipse on Atomic Clocks"
>> <http://www.mpq.mpg.de/~haensch/comb/people/thomas/Nature99.pdf>
>>
>> "On the Behaviour of Atomic Clocks during the
>> 1999 Solar Eclipse over Central Europe"
>> <http://www.mpq.mpg.de/~haensch/eclipse/full.html>
>>
>> /tvb
>>
>>
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