[time-nuts] any HP 5370B Available or other TIC

EWKehren at aol.com EWKehren at aol.com
Mon Aug 22 12:29:20 UTC 2011 

Jergen, I am glad to release every thing, there are no secrets if there is  
interest I will gladly send you and for that matter any one else interested 
 off line schematics and pictures. I do not want to flood the list  since 
there is only sparse interest also I am limited by the attachment size. If  I 
find more interest I may put to gather a document package that I will send 
off  line as an attachment. My only concern are the PC boards till we have a 
system  running with software I may have to change layout and than some one 
may order  one version and some one else the an other  one. Also till every 
thing  is cast in concrete the layout does not have components labeled.  
Presently  I hand label on paper for those that get boards. If you want more 
please contact  me off list with specific questions.
As an example I have not been happy with the 100 MHz  for the  counters. On 
the last run I used a PLL using the reference channel. To many  components 
and takes tuning. Found ICS 512 and thanks to Corby ICS 570. Takes  two 512 
or one 570. Finished layout yesterday for both and ordered parts  for 
testing. Total cost still below $200.
Bert  
 
 
In a message dated 8/22/2011 3:30:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
J.Bastemeijer at TUDelft.nl writes:

Dear  Bert,

Reading your description, did make me curious. I understand you  don't 
want release too much in order to avoid confusion in the future. But  do 
you have some more material you can share with us?

Thank you,  best regards, Jeroen

On 08/19/2011 02:57 PM, EWKehren at aol.com  wrote:
> Paul,
> following all the responses to this posting I  think a old fashioned D/M 
is
> still the answer for you. For years there  have been discussions on using
> latest  technology but limited to  discussion no hardware. Maybe now is 
the
> time it will   change.
>   That is why two years ago I set out do develop a  D/M system based on  
the
> original NBS design but with its own  counter and a cost goal of $ 200 and
> readily available parts.. Thanks  to Richard, Corby and Hubert there are 
now
> eight systems out there  with very good results. Cost goal was reached if 
20
> PC  board  sets are purchased. The actual D/M right from NBS, more densely
>  packaged  for better temp. tracking and later components. Corby's tests  
show a
> noise floor  of 1 E-13. Resolution is 1 E -15. I did post  in the past a
> picture but it is  115K, so off list I can send  more info.
> What is holding up the release is software that takes the  counter  
outputs
> and does the Allan deviation calculations and  plots.
> What is not included in the $200 is the offset Osc,, power  supply and
> outside enclosure. Depending on the OCXO used it will drive  the total 
cost to
> $300 even $ 400 if 10 Hz is used. But no counter  needs to be used.
> If you use a 1 Hz offset many choices for OCXO are  available I have used 
an
>   Austron 1150 and more recently  thanks to a lead from Hubert a Morion 
that
> is available on ebay for  $40. He characterized it with the D/M system.
> If you want to use 10 Hz  offset the only choice I know is the HP 10811. 
All
>   the  ones I have can be mechanically moved at least + - 20 Hz.
> I know  nothing about the Keithly 776 so I do not know if it will work. 
You
>  may want to contact me off list.
> The attached drawing of the counter  (thank you Brian Kirby) gives you an
> idea of my counter approach. It  is $ 30 of the $ 200. Tipically the phase
> between channel A and B are  measured, but that creates times depending of
> phase  when the  counter can not keep up because it needs time for 
processing  and
>   transfer of data. My concept does also have such a  counter but it is 
only
> used  to position phase or once a run is  completed to pick a section 
where
> channel A  and B are in phase  to eliminate any contribution by the offset
> oscillator. Two   counters each per channel count the 1 or 10 Hz 
frequency at
> 100 MHz,  resulting  at 1 Hz with 1 E-15 and at 10 Hz 1 E-14 way better  
than
> the D/M noise floor. The  counters work in a ping pong mode  so there is
> continuous counting, I call it  pseudo time stamping.  It also allows you 
to "tune"
> the unknown close to the  reference  at a 1 or 10 Hz rate. These  four
> counters are used for the  Allan  calculations.
> This unit never needs a counter, once you  connect Reference and PC you 
can
> tune the offset exactly to 1 or 10  Hz, connect the unknown, "tune" it and
> you  are ready to go. PC  interface is RS 232 or USB.
> What is needed is some one tackling the PC  software issue.
>   I will not get into the kit business. At  one time I was considering  to
> coordinate a one time PCB run and  even make some HP 10811's available 
since
> thanks to Corby's testing, I  have ten 10811  and 5071 HP OCXO's with 
better
> than 1 E-12 over 1  to 100 sec..range, but after Jose Camara's comment 
that
> is no   longer an option for me. I will once a final board set has run 
with
>  software make all info available, and hopefully some one will pick it  
up.
> The reason I am right now reluctant to release the PCB board code  is if
> changes  need to be done it will be impossible to get rid  of the 
previous code.
> If any one wants go get involved software or  hardware wise please contact
> me off list.
>
> Bert  Kehren
>
>
>
> In a message dated 8/17/2011 11:11:30  P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> paulc at snet.net writes:
>
>  Hello  Folks,
> I am looking for an instrument that is better than  Fluke 103a  
comparator.
> The purpose of this piece of equipment is  help me learn more  about
> oscillators and characterizing  them
>
> The HP5370B is the TIC  I keep hearing about but I  am not glued to that
> make or model.
> I wou;d like  to hear  suggestion from the group.
>
> Another way to go might be to   build one of those units where there is a
> common oscillator is  split  and feeds the LO of 2 mixers.
> The RF side comes from the  DUT and the  REF
> Sorry I cannot remember the  acronym...  MDMM????
>
> I do have that Keithly model 776 Counter  time  with GPIB  I am really 
fuzzy
> on this aspect...
>
>  Comments  welcome
>
> Thank  you
>
>  PaulC
> W1VLF
>
>
>
> From: To:  Sent:
>
>
>
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