[time-nuts] Tool Needed to Access my Timer Battery

William H. Fite omniryx at gmail.com
Wed Feb 16 20:26:38 UTC 2011


Approximately 2.25mm (that metric nonsense).  [?]





On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, J. Forster <jfor at quik.com> wrote:

> AHA! The English system triumphs over that Metric nonsense.
>
> My Rolex stopped working about 20 years ago. OTOH, my $12 Timex analog
> quartz still works fine....
>
> I think. At least it was working when I misplaced it a year ago. Since
> then, I've discovered I really don't need to know time to much better than
> +/- 10 minutes.
>
> FWIW,
>
> -John
>
> ==============
>
>
> > I figured someone would pounce on my post.  If you think that time nuts
> > can
> > be competitive, try watch nuts.  None of us agrees with any of the rest
> of
> > us, no matter what.
> >
> > It is true that the term ebauche, as it is used in the trade, very often
> > refers to an incomplete movement.  It may or may not be fitted with
> > jewels,
> > springs, escapment, balance wheel.  The term is used loosely in the watch
> > business except, of course, that each of us knows precisely how it should
> > be
> > used and everyone else is wrong.  [?]
> >
> > Ebauche is used in a less technical way to refer to a movement that is
> not
> > built in-house but rather is purchased, more-or-less tweaked, and put
> into
> > a
> > house case.  It is sometimes (by Rolex fanbois, for example) used as a
> > term
> > of derision, as the use of an outsourced ebauche is considered to be less
> > prestigious than building your own movements in house.  I'll leave that
> > debate for another day.
> >
> > When an ebauche is outsourced, the assembler will specify what he wants
> to
> > be supplied.  It can be anything from the plates and pillars all the way
> > up
> > to a fully assembled, ready-to-run movement.  The more upscale the
> > assembler, the more likely they are to want to insert some of their own
> > parts, do some fancy milling and engraving, etc., some to improve
> > performance, some just to look sexy.  The Omega Seamaster that I am
> > wearing
> > at this moment (a 2255.80.00) uses the ETA 2892-A2 ebauche and modifies
> it
> > extensively, then refers to it as either the Omega 1120 calibre or the
> > 1120
> > movement.
> >
> > All that being said, at least Omega (won't speak for others) refers to
> the
> > uncased movement, when it goes to COSC for testing as an ebauche.
>  Whether
> > they mean by that that they bought it from ETA or just that it is an
> > uncased
> > movement would be for them to answer.
> >
> > Chuck is right in pointing out that terminology should be used correctly
> > which is why I wrote "ebauche et assortiments" which, in context, means
> > "all
> > the parts and pieces" of the movement.  And that covers it adequately
> > whether the ebauche, itself, comes ready-to-run or just as a handful of
> > components.
> >
> > He quite accurately corrects my use of the term "calibre" (yeah, we fuss
> > over how to spell it, too...).  His definition, including both the
> > measurement of the movement in lignes and the general configuration of
> the
> > movement such that it will fit a specific case, is right on target.  It
> > is,
> > however, not uncommon to hear people say calibre to refer to a movement
> as
> > a
> > whole.  Omega, for example, refers in some  of its literature to the
> "1120
> > calibre," by which they mean the whole movement.
> >
> > A ligne is 1/12 of an inch, by the way.
> >
> > And we could go on from here but you would probably rather get back to
> > filtering that Tbolt power supply.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Chuck Harris <cfharris at erols.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> I think if we are going to use terminology, we should try to use it
> >> correctly.
> >>
> >> The term ebauche, is very similar to the term engine block.  An ebauche
> >> is
> >> an unfinished movement.  It typically has not been fitted with all of
> >> the
> >> jewels, balance, etc..  In Switzerland, like in Detroit, there are
> >> numerous
> >> companies, also known as Ebauche, that build the parts that many name
> >> brand
> >> manufacturers assemble into a finished unit... be it an engine, or a
> >> watch.
> >>
> >> Just as a Volkeswagen Beetle, and a Porsche 914 use the same engine
> >> block,
> >> but finish it for different purposes, an ebauche movement may receive
> >> quite
> >> a lot of hot-rodding depending on the OEM customer.  Some get their
> >> plates
> >> dressed up with fine gilt lettering, Damasceening, extra jewels, and
> >> adjustments,
> >> and others simply get stuffed into the watch case rough and unadorned.
> >>
> >> The term calibre, is used two ways.  The first is to show the general
> >> size
> >> of a movement, in lignes.  The second is to indicate the general layout,
> >> or
> >> style of a movement.  Movements of the same calibre can often be
> >> substituted
> >> for an original movement, even though they are made, and finished,
> >> differently
> >> than the original.
> >>
> >> Companies like Rolex have traditionally done all of the manufacturing of
> >> their
> >> movements in house.  They do not use the Ebauche market as a source for
> >> any
> >> of
> >> their parts.  Other companies, like TAG/Heuer use nothing but Ebauche
> >> parts.
> >>
> >> Quartz movements as found in the typical Bling brands, are all ebauche.
> >>
> >> Mechanical watch movements have suffered greatly from the rapid
> >> depression
> >> of
> >> the prices of sophisticated electronics, and the rapid rise of labor
> >> costs.
> >>
> >> It was once possible for a watchmaker to spend his days fixing watches,
> >> at
> >> a reasonably cheap price, and still keep his wife and kids fed clothed,
> >> and living in a decent home.
> >>
> >> But even back then, technology brought us the "Dollar Watch" that was so
> >> cheap that it was never meant to be fixed.  The start of the downfall of
> >> the watchmaking profession.
> >>
> >> Today, if a watchmaker charges $140 for a 3-4 hour service job, people
> >> complain
> >> that it is too expensive.  And yet, they would also complain if they
> >> didn't
> >> get
> >> more than $140 for 3-4 hours of their time.
> >>
> >>
> >> -Chuck Harris
> >>
> >> William H. Fite wrote:
> >>
> >>> That estimate is probably about right.  It hasn't been quite that
> >>> expensive
> >>> for me but then I have a couple of Omegas; gave my Rolex to my nephew
> >>> years
> >>> ago.
> >>>
> >>> For your money, they remove the movement (or the calibre...or the
> >>> ébauche
> >>> et
> >>> assortiments...depending on how horologically snooty you care to be.
> >>> They
> >>> clean it, inspect it and replace worn parts, reassemble and lubricate.
> >>>  They
> >>> then test it for accuracy in their own lab.  If it passes house
> >>> standards,
> >>> they will send the movement (still out of the case at this point) to
> >>> the
> >>> Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres where it will be tested for a
> >>> number of days, in a number of positions, at a number of temperatures.
> >>> Assuming it passes, they put it back into the case, which has, in the
> >>> meantime, been cleaned, repaired if needed, and buffed.  They then ship
> >>> the
> >>> watch back to you with a new warranty and a new COSC chronometer
> >>> certification.
> >>>
> >>> Considering that the bottom end for a Rolex nowadays is on the order of
> >>> $3K
> >>> and even a lowly Omega Seamaster starts at about $1500, this fee does
> >>> not
> >>> seem excessive to me.
> >>>
> >>> Of course, if'n you don't care, just take it to your local Kay's.
> >>> After
> >>> all, every kiss begins with Kay.  But understand that the kiss you get
> >>> will
> >>> be kissing your fine movement goodbye much before its time.
> >>>
> >>> But I wouldn't pay that to have a quartz watch overhauled.  That is the
> >>> care
> >>> you give to a fine mechanical calibre, not a crystal and a battery.
> >>> After
> >>> all (shudder) it is quartz.  Quartz belongs on the bench, not on your
> >>> wrist.  Some Rolex owners are ashamed to admit that Rolex even makes a
> >>> quartz watch.  If I had a pricey quartz watch and it failed, I'd
> >>> probably
> >>> just have a new quartz movement from Seiko or whoever slapped into my
> >>> expensive case and get on with my life.
> >>>
> >>> Those of you who no longer wear wrist watches and have some in your
> >>> dresser
> >>> drawers with mechanical movements, feel free to send them to me.  I'll
> >>> sort
> >>> out the wheat from the chaff.[?]
> >>>
> >>> Bill
> >>>
> >>
> >>  _______________________________________________
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> >>
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>
>
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