[time-nuts] List Noise Level [was...]

[WB6BNQ]

Will,

Did you actually read what I wrote ?  I ask because your response, below, would
suggest a low comprehension rate.  I noted a number of your responses fall into
the same category.  Such responses, having no substantive material, do nothing
but add noise to the list.  This list is suppose to be a low noise level list.
Technical discussions on topics specific to the list is one thing, but protracted
BS where everyone chimes in on what kind of watch they wear is another matter.

How do you know these "guys" in Asia "LIKE TO PLAY" with them ?  Do you know
"them" personally ?  They are business people and yes they investigated some
units to determine what is needed to make the product useable to their
customers.  It is a business effort, not a play ground.  By the way, I think I
can safely say one seller did the work and others are just copying him to a large
degree.

I like how you feel it is more about who had them and your not sure about the pin
number but it is out there in a PDF somewhere.  How does that apply to the two
units that are stated as having a problem where it is indicated it may be other
then programming ?

Another example is the "Broadband synthesizer" thread.  The asking party, while
being way too generalized, did use the word synthesizer and referred to
milli-Hertz resolution.  Clearly not at all within the realm of a 8640B, yet you
did it three times.  But, then again, I guess you missed that part of it in your
enthusiastic effort to make a response.

Yes !  I am jumping your case a bit, but it also applies to others and hopefully
they are smart enough to realize it.  No, I have no intention of being
politically correct.  I also think a kid who failed a school year should not get
passed on.  If they are screwing up they should get told about it, even if it
hurts their feelings.

I guess what I am saying is for people to have some respect for the stated
intentions of this mail list and try to rise to that ideal.  I am also saying
some effort ought to be put forth in trying some critical thinking.

Oh, by the way, as they say in Chicago;  Its nothing personal, just business.

Bill....WB6BNQ


Will Matney wrote:

> I think it's more in who had them and tried to calibrate them, as some of
> these are actually programmed for the desired frequency. I forget which pin
> that is, but I think it may show it in one of the pdfs. There's another pdf
> available out there from a ham who did a lot with these, and it did show
> how to program/calibrate them.
>
> I know a few of the guy's over in Asia like to play with these before they
> sell them, so I think a lot of it's all in whom you get them from.
>
> Best,
>
> Will
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 7/13/2011 at 4:56 PM WB6BNQ wrote:
>
> ?David,
> ?
> ?The answer to your question is quite complex.  A number of factors control
> the
> ?operation of a passive atomic resonator acting as a filter.  Temperature,
> pressure,
> ?buffer gas mixtures, external magnetic forces, coupled light excitation,
> the length
> ?of the cavity, the interrogating external RF energy level are but some of
> those
> ?factors.
> ?
> ?The "Atomic" nature of the filter is based upon the extremely narrow
> resonance of
> ?electron absorption of energy which occurs at a specific frequency and is
> influenced
> ?by the previously mentioned factors.  That specific RF excitation
> frequency is
> ?different for each element in the Periodic Table.  For example the
> Hydrogen Maser is
> ?around 1.45 GHz; the Rubidium is in the 6 Ghz range and the Cesium is in
> the 9 Ghz
> ?range.
> ?
> ?None of the specification sheets even approach trying to answer such a
> question
> ?directly.  However, with certain qualifying assumptions, it could be
> inferred from
> ?"certain" specs, if available, as a general idea, BUT, by no means the
> complete
> ?answer.
> ?
> ?For example, looking at Symmetricom's XPRO Rubidium spec sheet, they give
> a 10 year
> ?spec of ?+/-1x10e-9.  The assumption is the unit was built correctly, was
> adjusted
> ?to be precisely on frequency at its intended installation site and was
> left powered
> ?on, in a stable atmosphere, without failures of any kind for the entire 10
> years.
> ?If the product truly met those assumptions and specs, then I would say,
> with some
> ?confidence, that if you picked up a used one working properly that it
> would be
> ?reasonable to assume after powering up and allowing it to come to a stable
> ?temperature (24 hours) and it indicated a locked condition that it would
> be within
> ?1x10e-9 of the correct frequency.  Unfortunately, FEI is not so forth
> coming with
> ?their product literature, but I suspect their units are similar.
> ?
> ?Also, be aware that at least one member on this list has reported buying
> two 5680A's
> ?from China and they were both significantly off frequency by many hertz.
> Inspection
> ?and determination of the problem is a project in motion.  This same member
> has
> ?further stated other reports exist on the WEB of other units exhibiting
> the same
> ?problem, although I have not seen those reports.
> ?
> ?It may prove out that the two 5680A's have a problem.  It is equally
> possible that
> ?they are deliberately offset for some specified yet unknown reason.  Time
> will tell.
> ?
> ?While a Cesium frequency standard is by definition and without question
> accurate,
> ?that only applies under a narrow set of circumstances.  It is possible to
> miss
> ?adjust such a beast and that is why multiple standards labs constantly
> cross check
> ?themselves.
> ?
> ?Remember, to error is human and machines do what we tell them !
> ?
> ?Bill....WB6BNQ
> ?
> ?
> ?"Dr. David Kirkby" wrote:
> ?
> ?? If an old random 10 MHz Rubidium oscillator is working (i.e. powers up,
> and
> ?? eventually locks), what is the maximum possible frequency error it could
> have?
> ??
> ?? Could it remained locked with an error of 1 part in 10^7, 10^8, 10^9,
> 10^10 etc?
> ??
> ?? I assume there are physical limits which would simply stop it
> functioning too
> ?? far from the correct frequency, but don't have much clue what they are.
> ??
> ?? --
> ?? A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> ?? Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> ?? A: Top-posting.
> ?? Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
> ??
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