[time-nuts] HP-3586B SSB L.O. Mods...

Tue Mar 22 18:58:22 UTC 2011

Bob
I have no idea how to respond.
I do indeed know what I&Q are.
But the other stuff? Got me what it means. Though Mr. Google could help.
I am a sound blaster guy who uses canned programs to get answers. Like
spectrum lab that unfortunately is failing me in this scenario. Appreciate
the guidance but will stick to the scope and sig gens. ;-) After all really
would like to wrap this in one evening or less.
Because the old ears are very happy with what they hear.
Regards
Paul.

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 12:24 PM, Bob Camp <lists at rtty.us> wrote:

> Hi
>
> The other approach would be to simply take the samples, do a mix down, and
> get the phase from an ATAN calculation on the I/Q results. That would give
> you pure phase and thus frequency.
>
> You do indeed still need things like filtering, but it's likely a better
> way
> to get the job done than an FFT.
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On
> Behalf Of paul swed
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:02 AM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP-3586B SSB L.O. Mods...
>
> Thanks Bob indeed I have figured it out in spec lab. Thats why I say I am
> not sure that application can ever work. Its really intended for a
> different
> application. Soooo time to ask Mr. Google.
>
> Another approach I thought up last night.
> If every thing is locked to the same ref and it can be.
> Inject say a 1 MC sig into the 3586. That will generate a 16KC IF don't
> recall the exact freq.
>
> Generate the same freq using a HP 3335 sig gen trig a scope take the IF out
> to another channel on the scope. In theory they should be stable and locked
> in phase relationship.
> Any jitter will be that of the 3586 PLL system and I am sure there will be.
> Believe that I can check the 3335 by taking its 1mc and comparing. Have
> done
> this in the past and its very solid. So really eliminating that from the
> question.
>
> If the IF is stable or there is jitter then I know thats not the BFO
> system....
> Regards
> Paul.
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Bob Camp <lists at rtty.us> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > It's all a matter of "how many bins". There are packages out there that
> > will work with 64K bins. At an 8 KHz sample rate, that would give you
>  1/8
> > Hz resolution. It would also take you a while to get the data. There is
> no
> > practical limit to the number of bins, other than "how big is your
> > computer". I suspect somebody out there has broken the million bin
> barrier.
> >
> > Weather any of the fancy stuff has a usable interface (rather than C
> code),
> > or will hook up to a sound card - who knows...
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > On Mar 21, 2011, at 11:09 PM, paul swed wrote:
> >
> > > Interesting because its going to be very hard for spec lab to do it. I
> > > experimented tonight and the results were not good.
> > > What I can say is the 3586 is stable to spec labs resolution.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Bob Camp <lists at rtty.us> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi
> > >>
> > >> I forget exactly which programs do which, but there are some free
> > spectrum
> > >> analysis programs that will get you way into the sub-Hz resolution
> with
> > an
> > >> <=8 KHz sample rate.
> > >>
> > >> Bob
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Mar 21, 2011, at 5:44 PM, paul swed wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> It can actually be calculated and it is in Berts tables.
> > >>> But last night I used spectrum lab and and could see the difference
> > >> between
> > >>> usb worse case.5 Hz and LSB .3Hz. It was very stable no drifting at
> all
> > >>> while tuned to wwvb. But spectrum lab was not really optimized to
> give
> > me
> > >>> better detail. Sub Hz res. Need to figure out how you would do that
> > >> actually
> > >>> and maybe you simply can't.
> > >>> Regards
> > >>> Paul
> > >>> WB8TSL
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Burt I. Weiner <biwa at att.net>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Bert,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> This looks very interesting.  Have you been able to determine the
> > actual
> > >>>> error between the receiver's "tuned to" frequency and the
> 1850.000.00
> > Hz
> > >>>> audio tone error out of the receivers audio for upper and lower SSB?
> > >> This
> > >>>> could make a good group project kit.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Burt, K6OQK
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:11:04 -0700 (PDT)
> > >>>>> From: "Bert, VE2ZAZ" <ve2zaz at yahoo.ca>
> > >>>>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 3586A/B/C entirely referenced to 10MHz:
> A
> > >>>>>      solution
> > >>>>> Message-ID: <258386.19056.qm at web112008.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> > >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hello Everyone,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I have spent the last few weeks modifying the HP 3586 Selective
> Level
> > >>>>> Meter. The
> > >>>>> intent was to modify the unit and reference the SSB product
> detector
> > >> stage
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>> the internal reference. This would make the entire SLM locked to
> the
> > >> 10MHz
> > >>>>> reference, whether internal or externally fed.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I have completed the modification with satisfactory results. I use
> a
> > >>>>> DDS-Based
> > >>>>> Function Generator 16-pin IC and a small 8-pin PIC micro.  For more
> > >>>>> detail,
> > >>>>> visit my website at
> > http://ve2zaz.net/HP3586_AD5962/HP3586_AD5962.htm.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> This has been a very good exercise from a DDS perspective and I
> have
> > >>>>> learned a
> > >>>>> lot on the topic. I would be interested in hearing from those who
> > >> proceed
> > >>>>> with
> > >>>>> the mod.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Bert, VE2ZAZ
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Burt I. Weiner Associates
> > >>>> Broadcast Technical Services
> > >>>> Glendale, California  U.S.A.
> > >>>> biwa at att.net
> > >>>> www.biwa.cc
> > >>>> K6OQK
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
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> > >>
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