[time-nuts] * * * BOB CAMP - YOUR POLLS * * *

Sat Mar 26 23:32:44 UTC 2011

   Gee Bill Fite,

   I am sorry to pop your bubble on my "presumed" purpose.  Your
   assumptions are wrong.  Being 65 years old and failing eye sight, I
   would most definitely prefer to have a completed, or mostly completed
   board for any project.

   What you and others have failed to notice is the population shift of
   the list since its inception.

   Those who started the list were some very high caliber individuals who
   have all but disappeared.  These individuals no longer provide the
   insight of their vast knowledge and experience that was once available
   on this list.  Just a couple of few remain and seldom post or respond.

   Why do you suppose that is ?

   Not that they minded answering the "newbie" basic questions, no, I
   suspect the reason is the quality of the general discussions have
   diminished from the intent of the list.  I suspect that it is from not
   a few responses to a question, but the endless suggestions that seem to
   go down hill as the responses continue to the original post.

   Discussion of a project should be from the perspective that one is
   actually going to do the project and may have some well placed
   questions to help himself achieve his end goals and complete the
   project.  Merely to TROLL a project discussion in hopes someone else
   will take up the cause is clearly out of place.  That has happened on
   the list.

   Concerning projects, a few have been really worthwhile.  However, not
   much discussion  about them until they were, or mostly so, completed
   and sometimes offered to the list.  The discussions that have happened
   regarding these specific projects were not general drivel.

   My interests here are not to diminish one's involvement, per se, just
   to point out the reason the list seems to have lost its most valued
   members and elucidative discussions.  The following cliche may well
   seem mean spirited and elitists, but if you think about it, it
   illustrates the point of those high caliber individuals who have fallen
   silent.

   "It is hard to soar with the eagles when you're flying with a bunch of
   turkeys."

   Think of it as tough love !  Treat the list as a classroom instead of
   the playground.

   Bill....WB6BNQ

   "William H. Fite" wrote:

     The last thing I want to do is to start a flame war but I must
     respectfully disagree with WB6BNQ.  The volume of responses that
     this poll has elicited amply demonstrates that it is of broad
     interest to the membership.  That, alone, justifies its existence.
     What I have found when people start grumbling about the S/N ratio on
     a list of this type is that usually they are unhappy because the
     topic that is passingly dominating the discussion is one that holds
     for them no personal interest.  It is for such circumstances that
     God hath given unto us, his faithful servants, the delete key...

     Another Bill

   On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 5:23 PM, WB6BNQ <[1]wb6bnq at cox.net> wrote:

     Bob,

     This is suppose to be a high "signal" - to - "noise" list.  That
     means it is not loaded with unnecessary traffic.

     These polls are just that, a lot of noise.  The reason is they
     produce nothing of value and clog the email input of those who chose
     to receive the Timenuts list messages as they are sent in.

     Perhaps you could construct a web site where such polls could be
     done.  Please have some compassion for the original intent of the
     list and a good many of us that are not interested such germane
     issues that clearly spread all over the map.

     thank you,

     Bill....WB6BNQ

     Bob Camp wrote:

     > Hi
     >
     > Well that raises a question that I decided not to put in the
     original poll. I was trying to keep things from going to many
     directions at once. So here's the second poll question:
     >
     > On the same project ($250 to $500) / three complex chips / same
     objective:
     >
     > If you could get it assembled as a "semi kit" for another $100 -
     would you pay the money or would you build it yourself?
     >
     > For the sake of the poll, it's an un-tested board with all the
     hard stuff (SMT) done. What's left are hand solder parts
     (connectors, big regulators etc). Not quite 1950's assembly, but
     certainly nothing more than your Heathkit asked you to do. Also not
     a lot of it.
     >
     > Of course I have no idea if the $100 is the right number. It could
     be high, it could be low. Since it's a short run, I suspect the "per
     run" charges (machine setup and screens) will be a significant part
     of what would be paid. Rather than fine tuning that number, lets
     just go with it for right now.
     >
     > Bob
     >
     > On Mar 25, 2011, at 7:44 PM, Douglas H Reed wrote:
     >
     > > I'll chime in too.
     > > I've done plenty of small SMT at work and I do have a stereo
     > > microscope and suitable tools at home. I'd potentially try the
     toaster
     > > oven reflow technique but mainly just to see if it works. Paste
     solder
     > > is not my friend....
     > >
     > > On the other hand, I'd say it was easily worth a $50 surcharge
     to have
     > > a board house do it for me. As reference, the DG8SAQ VNWA was
     > > originally a kit but is now only available assembled and tested,
     and I
     > > think that was less than $100 more. For a potentially high
     volume
     > > project, the FunCube dongle is professionally assembled and then
     > > tested and repaired by the club volunteers before being
     assembled and
     > > shipped.
     > >
     > > If some one or a group is going to create parts kits for the
     project,
     > > you will find it takes a lot of time that might otherwise be
     used for
     > > testing the assembled boards coming back from the board house.
     Please
     > > note that any $$$ figures are just a guess, not from any
     Purchasing
     > > knowledge. I've never dealt with a board house but I know short
     runs
     > > will be expensive due to setup time.
     > >
     > > I don't want to throw cold water on the project because I think
     these
     > > sorts of projects are the best part of what ham radio is. I've
     always
     > > been a techie more than a PTT pusher.... I have a couple
     SoftRock
     > > kits, and I think there are a set of boards for a Scottie's
     Spec-an
     > > somewhere around the house.... But I bought the VNWA assembled.
     > >
     > > I'll certainly keep reading and will be interested to see where
     the
     > > project goes.
     > >
     > > 73, Doug Reed, N0NAS.
     > >
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