[time-nuts] Making a 10811 better

Tue Sep 20 20:14:12 UTC 2011

Whatever pretext was used to ban them, a very useful family of chemicals
has been outlawed.

There was nothing like a Freon Vapor Degreaser for cleaning PCBs and other
things. Essentially inert, not flamable, non-toxic, and a very good
non-polar solvent...  very sad.

They were also very useful for HV insulation in things like TWT amplifiers
and other high power avionics.

-John

=============

> Almost John I dont think they are Greenhouse gases, though I would not be
> surprised..... more certainly Ozone killers.
>
> Alan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J. Forster" <jfor at quikus.com>
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 8:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Making a 10811 better
>
>
> Likely one of the Freons (TM) or Sulphur Hexafluoride.
>
> Tektronix used a Freon in their 40 KV High Voltage probes. The Vapor
> pressure of some of those compounds is low at 70F, but they do have to be
> sealed.
>
> Unfortunately, virtually all Freon useage has been banned by the EPA (they
> are said to be "greenhouse gases") and the stuff in now almost unobtanium.
>
> -John
>
> ===============
>
>
>> Long ago and far away, I recall a friend using a gas that had its
>> liquid/gaseous transition near room temperature and was inert (not an
>> inert gas) to pressurize a vessel having high impedance circuits in it.
>> I'm darned if I can remember what it was. Available in so-called "lab
>> bottles" ie not monster cylinders.
>> Would have to be sealed, though.
>> Don
>>
>> Tijd Dingen
>>> Yeah, I was wondering about that. There's a reason they use helium to
>>> search for leaks on vacuum chambers. Those pesky small atoms go
>>> everywhere...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: J. Forster <jfor at quikus.com>
>>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>>> <time-nuts at febo.com>@qkmail9.01trend.com
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 9:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Making a 10811 better
>>>
>>> Helium in contact with Dewar walls is a very bad idea. He diffuses
>>> through
>>> many glasses and will completely destroy the vacuum in a Dewar in
>>> hours.
>>>
>>> -John
>>>
>>> =================
>>>
>>>
>>>> Depends what you mean by "much higher". Helium has almost 6 times
>>>> higher
>>>> thermal conductivity. Hydrogen is higher, but has certain drawbacks.
>>>> ;-)
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>> Fred
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Dick Moore <richiem at hughes.net>
>>>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 8:39 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Making a 10811 better
>>>>
>>>> Is there a relatively inert gas that has much higher thermal
>>>> conductivity
>>>> than air? Then a flask makes sense and is not the size of the
>>>> basement...
>>>>
>>>> Dick Moore
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 20, 2011, at 5:00 AM, time-nuts-request at febo.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 2
>>>>> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 18:21:30 -0700
>>>>> From: ed breya <eb at telight.com>
>>>>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
>>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Making a HP 10811 better
>>>>> Message-ID: <201109200121.p8K1LgsE015776 at mail30c40.carrierzone.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>>>>>
>>>>> One last thing regarding oil-filling. My previous comment was made
>>>>> picturing oil inside the oscillator block only - not outside, or
>>>>> between the outer parts - if there is a resistance wire heater (I
>>>>> think it's heated with Qs only on the 10811) it is held together with
>>>>> various tapes and adhesives that could soften or dissolve. Also, the
>>>>> insulation would not insulate very well of saturated with oil, and
>>>>> could possibly soften or break down somehow. I would not recommend
>>>>> dunking the whole thing in a vat of oil.
>>>>>
>>>>> And one final, final note: If oil is somehow effectively contained in
>>>>> the oscillator block, then a void (bubble) of some sort, or an
>>>>> expansion facility or vent would be needed to relieve the pressure
>>>>> changes during warmup. Otherwise, when started up, the expanding oil
>>>>> would have to either leak out, or deform (or damage) something. This
>>>>> would be equivalent to dramatically increasing barometric pressure,
>>>>> and certainly effect the oscillator frequency.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Message: 3
>>>>> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 23:20:28 -0600 (MDT)
>>>>> From: "Don Latham" <djl at montana.com>
>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
>>>>> <time-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Making a HP 10811 better
>>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>> <d850d565aabe9422dd4172b9c904d5d4.squirrel at webmail.montana.com>
>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah well. Just a thought. I was thinking of simply dumping the whole
>>>>> thing into a picnic jug full of baby oil :-)
>>>>> Sorta scatterbrained, but I have seen mentioned on the list a
>>>>> basement
>>>>> sized steel block ...
>>>>> Don
>>>>>
>>>>> ed breya
>>>>>> One last thing regarding oil-filling. My previous comment was made
>>>>>> picturing oil inside the oscillator block only - not outside, or
>>>>>> between the outer parts - if there is a resistance wire heater (I
>>>>>> think it's heated with Qs only on the 10811) it is held together
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> various tapes and adhesives that could soften or dissolve. Also, the
>>>>>> insulation would not insulate very well of saturated with oil, and
>>>>>> could possibly soften or break down somehow. I would not recommend
>>>>>> dunking the whole thing in a vat of oil.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And one final, final note: If oil is somehow effectively contained
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the oscillator block, then a void (bubble) of some sort, or an
>>>>>> expansion facility or vent would be needed to relieve the pressure
>>>>>> changes during warmup. Otherwise, when started up, the expanding
>>>>>> oil
>>>>>> would have to either leak out, or deform (or damage) something. This
>>>>>> would be equivalent to dramatically increasing barometric pressure,
>>>>>> and certainly effect the oscillator frequency.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
>>>>> are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the
>>>>> mind."
>>>>> R. Bacon
>>>>> "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
>>>>> Ghost in the Shell
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
>>>>> Six Mile Systems LLP
>>>>> 17850 Six Mile Road
>>>>> POB 134
>>>>> Huson, MT, 59846
>>>>> VOX 406-626-4304
>>>>> www.lightningforensics.com
>>>>> www.sixmilesystems.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> time-nuts mailing list
>>>>> time-nuts at febo.com
>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>>>
>>>>> End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 86, Issue 55
>>>>> *****************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
>> are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
>> R. Bacon
>> "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
>> Ghost in the Shell
>>
>>
>> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
>> Six Mile Systems LLP
>> 17850 Six Mile Road
>> POB 134
>> Huson, MT, 59846
>> VOX 406-626-4304
>> www.lightningforensics.com
>> www.sixmilesystems.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
>