[time-nuts] HP/Agilet counter 53131A (not 53151A) trigger problems

[Azelio Boriani]

So it can't be done... the possibility to discipline an OCXO taking the
action from a suitable model should help in speeding up the adjustments and
avoiding the humps as seen in the Allan deviation plot.

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 9:31 PM, Don Latham <djl at montana.com> wrote:

> Isn't crystal aging marked by random jumps? perhaps lattice
> rearrangement? Really hard if not impossible to model...
> Don
>
> Azelio Boriani
> > 30mV are -13dBm so maybe it is why the -20dBm is not a suitable level
> > for
> > that input. I have the 53132A and the 53181A so I can test (with the R&S
> > SML01). Is this problem new? Never tested before?
> >
> > About the OCXO aging: OK, I'm interested in the development of a model
> > that
> > can be general enough so that it can be "steered", adjusting its
> > parameters, during the OCXO life. The data (to adjust the parameters)
> > will
> > be gathered by the continuous monitoring with the GPS.
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 7:01 PM, Bernd Neubig <bneubig at t-online.de>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Azelio,
> >>
> >> Sorry, the counters are 53131A, not 53151A. The A and B inputs are
> >> specified
> >> from DC to 225 MHz with a sensitivity of y20 mV (rms) up to 100 MHz,
> >> <30 mV
> >> (rms) 100 ~ 200 MHz, and <50 mV (rms) 200 ~ 225 MHz.
> >> The problem can be at either input alone. The problem is only in the
> >> range
> >> between 100 MHz and <200 MHz, observed in automatic trigger mode. In
> >> manual
> >> trigger mode the counter does not trigger at all in that freq range.
> >>
> >> I cannot tell you an aging model for a particular OCXO, and I doubt if
> >> anyone can ;) Aging predictions can only be made on individual OCXO,
> >> unit
> >> by
> >> unit, and the prediction is only valid over a rather limited time.
> >> Therefore
> >> you must continuously monitor and update your prediction.
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >>
> >> Bernd
> >> DK1AG
> >>
> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >> Von: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] Im
> >> Auftrag von Azelio Boriani
> >> Gesendet: Freitag, 24. August 2012 17:28
> >> An: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >> Betreff: Re: [time-nuts] HP/Agilet counter 53151A trigger problems
> >>
> >> From the datasheet:
> >> A input 10Hz..125MHz min level 25mVrms (-19dBm) B input min 50MHz,
> >> -20dBm
> >> the problem is on A input only? Maybe 150MHz for the A input, being
> >> beyond
> >> the official specifications, requires more signal on one counter than
> >> the
> >> other. In the past they all were fine?
> >> I have read your paper on the correlation between the real and
> >> predicted
> >> aging of crystal oscillators. I'm trying to find a suitable model for
> >> the
> >> Morion MV201 OCXO or the Oscilloquartz 8663 to implement a Kalman
> >> filter.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Bernd Neubig <BNeubig at t-online.de>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > I have several HP/Agilent frequency counters 53151A (and 53152A) in
> >> my
> >> lab.
> >> > Several of them meanwhile show trigger problems.
> >> >
> >> > I have tested the A and B channel between 5 MHz and 200 MHZ at three
> >> > input levels of -10 dBm, 0 dBm and +10 dBm.
> >> >
> >> > Those with trigger problems show erroneous numbers at -10 dBm input
> >> > level rather selectively, i.e. mostly at 100 MHz, some also at 150
> >> > MHz, while the are o.k.
> >> >
> >> > Has anyone on this list experienced similar defects and can give a
> >> > recommendation how to fix/repair them?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Best regards
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Bernd
> >> >
> >> > DK1AG
> >> >
> >> > www.axtal.com
> >> >
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>
> --
> "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
> are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
> R. Bacon
> "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
> Ghost in the Shell
>
>
> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
> Six Mile Systems LLP
> 17850 Six Mile Road
> POB 134
> Huson, MT, 59846
> VOX 406-626-4304
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>
>
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