[time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival

Mark Spencer mspencer12345 at yahoo.ca
Sun Jul 15 20:32:50 UTC 2012


In my view a backup solution that allows the existing gps based timing receivers to be used makes a reasonable ammount of sense.   Another approach could involve ground based transmitters on high buildings or mountain tops.


------------------------------
On Sun, 15 Jul, 2012 4:23 PM EDT J. Forster wrote:

>This makes no sense.
>
>The major expense of any radio system is not the transmitters, but the
>infrastrcture to support those transmitters.
>
>Things like land, towers, buildings, maintenance people, and legal costs
>all are far more than a transmitter. And, have you looked at the cost of a
>single satellite? LORAN-C could have been run for a decade or three for
>the cost of a single bird.
>
>Many of those are probably available for a resurected LORAN-C, except for
>what has been sold off.
>
>-John
>
>===========
>
>
>
>>
>> GWEN was a  late cold war era LF "cellular style" communications system
>> for use within parts of the USA.  Over the years I've seen a number of
>> cesium standards on Ebay being sold as "ex GWEN" equipment.  As far as I
>> know GWEN is long gone.
>>
>> Supposedly some AM broadcast stations also transmitted fsk data for
>> defence purposes as well.  Perhaps some AM broadcast stations could be
>> used to transmit timing information.
>>
>> There were also cold war era proposals for a nation wide LF broadcast
>> system for civil defence use and iirc at least one transmitter was
>> actually on the air in the 70's or early 80's.
>>
>> As much as I'd like to see a nation wide LF broadcast system as a means of
>> distributing standard time, frequency, and other related information, I
>> just don't see it happening in this day and age.
>>
>> Some form of backup to gps would be nice for timing purposes.  I wonder if
>> a secondary sattelite based system for timing use only over the
>> continental US might be the way to go.  (Ie. a transmitter on a geo
>> stationary sattelite that could emulate enough of the gps signals to allow
>> statioanry timing receivers to function.)
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> On Sun, 15 Jul, 2012 2:09 PM EDT Tom Miller wrote:
>>
>>I believe many of the GWEN sites were converted to VLF beacons
>> transmitting
>>differential GPS reference data.
>>
>>I know of one site in Crownsville, Maryland that does just that.
>>
>>I don't know the up to data status of these sites now.
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "jmfranke" <jmfranke at cox.net>
>>To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
>><time-nuts at febo.com>
>>Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 1:29 PM
>>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival
>>
>>
>>Was it GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network)? When it was shut down, many
>> of
>>the transmitter sites were scheduled to be used as part of an inland
>> LORAN
>>system run primarily for the railroads.
>>
>>John  WA4WDL
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------
>>From: "Don Latham" <djl at montana.com>
>>Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 12:53 PM
>>To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
>><time-nuts at febo.com>
>>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB and Free Democracies Survival
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No you use a great number of tiny
>>> overlapping cells combined with spread spectrum and strong encryption
>>> and you control it with a some kind of self organizing mesh network,
>>> not a top-down control system.   What this does is mimic nature.
>>> Think about rats and cockroaches
>>> Chris Albertson
>>> Redondo Beach, California
>>> There was (is?) a vlf system like this at one time, along with a buried
>>> cable system, cold-war projects. Can't remember what they were called,
>>> or present status.  These things are kinda lost these days, like the
>>> original reason for the national interstate freeway system-transport of
>>> truck-mounted ICBMs'--taken over by the ICBM subs...
>>> Don
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
>>> are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
>>> R. Bacon
>>> "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
>>> Ghost in the Shell
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
>>> Six Mile Systems LLP
>>> 17850 Six Mile Road
>>> POB 134
>>> Huson, MT, 59846
>>> VOX 406-626-4304
>>> www.lightningforensics.com
>>> www.sixmilesystems.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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