[time-nuts] GPS locked 60Hz?

[Chris Albertson]

The old time (stone age) method of setting the phase of a power generator
was easy:  Get an ordinary light bulb and connect it between the grid and
your generator,  Adjust the phase of your generator until the bulb goes
dim.  When the bulb is 100% dead out then flip the switch and connect the
load.   They had it a lot easier before there were computers and good
instruments.



On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Bob Camp <lists at rtty.us> wrote:

> Hi
>
> The guys who put up the original papers were from Quebec Hydro. Their
> issue was trying to set things up independent of the grid and dispatch
> power to where ever it was needed. Once they demonstrated it was possible a
> lot of other people became interested. Oddly enough at dinner I brought up
> the possibility of using Loran-C to them. Their commit was "have you ever
> tried to get 100 KHz past the field of a hydro station --- no way!!!".
> Actually the last part of it was in French, but that's as close as I an get
> ….
>
> Bob
>
> On Jul 27, 2013, at 4:10 PM, Bob Stewart <bob at evoria.net> wrote:
>
> > But wouldn't it be easier to set phase if they had a known, good
> frequency?  Oh.  Frequency isn't the issue, is it?  If you have to supply
> to the west coast for a few hours and then plug into the east coast to
> purchase power, you might have to do a large phase shift between the two.
>  And after some arbitrary timeframe doing still more bouncing around you
> could be off in frequency as measured locally in the long term.
> >
> > This idea just hit me because the Tymeter uses a synchronous clock
> drive.  And giving it some thought, I guess it's not that big a deal if you
> start with a cheap UPS and a good clock.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Bob Camp <lists at rtty.us>
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 2:42 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS locked 60Hz?
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> If you go back into the Frequency Control Symposium papers from the
> 1980's there are several of them from the power line people on using GPS to
> track 60 Hz. They have kept at it ever since. Their main interest is in
> tracking phase across a large network, rather than locking up generators
> (for accurate time). Knowing phase lets them better balance power flow(s)
> and thus save money.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >> On Jul 27, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> http://leapsecond.com/pages/atomic-nixie/ shows a KVARZ CH1-75 Active
> >>> Hydrogen Maser (5 MHz) through a HP 3325B synthesizer (60 Hz) through
> a HP
> >>> 6827A bipolar power supply (100 VAC) to generate a 60 Hz mains.
> >>>
> >>> At http://leapsecond.com/pages/mains/ he also shows the 60Hz grid
> >>> meandering forward and back plus or minus 5 or 10 seconds over a month
> in
> >>> 2004.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Bob Stewart <bob at evoria.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> My Tymeter just clacked over to 50 minutes after, and I had a sudden
> >>>> vision of GPS locking its input to 60 Hz, like in the good old days
> when
> >>>> the power companies cared about frequency.  =)  Has anyone actually
> gone
> >>>> that far in their time-madness?
> >>>>
> >>>> Bob - AE6RV
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California