[time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 Time of Day grief...(WWVB Clock)

paul swed paulswedb at gmail.com
Thu Jun 13 12:58:06 EDT 2013


Especially if they help design the cute connecting wires. 3D like.


On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 12:02 PM, J. L. Trantham <jltran at att.net> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> Having an 'engineering' mind set, it's all about form and function.
> However, my wife and daughter being Interior Designers, it's all about
> presentation.  Unfortunately, selling is not my long suit.
>
> However, as a 'modern art' piece, I might have a chance. :^)
>
> Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On
> Behalf Of paul swed
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 10:37 AM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 Time of Day grief...(WWVB Clock)
>
> Joe
> Thats really a silly statement. The issue is this, we tech types put things
> in rows and columns. But true artists use dead bug style with lots of wire
> and parts flying everyplace.
> Put the whole glob in a picture frame and you have a seriously worthy piece
> of art. How could your wife complain? Plus you get time out of it. Its all
> about how you sell it.
> Regards
> Paul
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 10:32 AM, J. L. Trantham <jltran at att.net> wrote:
>
> > In a slightly different direction, are there any commercially
> > available 'PSK Compliant Atomic Clocks' out there for those of us used
> > to looking at the 'correct time'?
> >
> > Also, what, exactly, was the advantage of changing modulation formats?
> >  That
> > 'killed' all the existing 'Atomic Clocks'?
> >
> > I have looked at the Costas Loop article by Paul and it looks doable
> > but I probably could not make it look presentable to my wife sitting on a
> shelf.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com]
> > On Behalf Of paul swed
> > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2013 7:34 AM
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Spectracom 8170 Time of Day grief...
> >
> > Burt search time nuts its all there. Its not a kit by any means.
> > Spectracom did a very good job. To good, though in reality they simply
> > reused the phase tracking rcvr from other units. Essentially the
> > system locks to the stable carrier creating a local replica and then
> > removes the carrier recovering just the AM. Or think of it as
> > subtracting the carrier leaving just the data. Very good design very
> > bad for PSK, since the carrier no longer has a relationship.
> > Nist and spectracom did put notices and such out for over a year, so
> > what can you say. Though we all have lots of strong opinions actually.
> > Don't want to start that thread again.
> > I have often thought and will spend no time doing it. Simply replace
> > the demod with a diode detector. Now its not actually quite that easy.
> > But if the only thing I had was a 8170 what the heck. The schematics
> > of the system are available at spectracom.
> >
> > Near as I can tell the 8170 would run about 2 days on a fix.
> >
> > Off to seriously sleazzy land. You could always bugger a gps clock
> > into the system adapting GPS time to local time by a micro. But that
> really is ugly.
> > Though you end up with those nice clock digits working again. Hey when
> > you do that send me the old rcvr parts. ;-)
> >
> > Regards
> > Paul.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 12:37 AM, Burt I. Weiner <biwa at att.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Paul,
> > >
> > > Ummmm... What a revolting development this is.  My 9150-52054 have a
> > > smaller readout out that I can't see without climbing up on my
> > > bench, so I suppose I will no longer know what time it is.
> > >
> > > I've never really had to delve into the 8170 so I wasn't up to speed
> > > on how they derived the data from the carrier prior to the new PSK
> > > format.  I was under the misunderstanding that it was strictly from
> > > amplitude variation.  I guess it is, except for the manner in which
> > > they determine the changes.
> > >
> > > Please tell me about the "d-psk-r" you mentioned.  Also do you know
> > > the times of day WWVB reverts to the old method and for how long?
> > > I'll have to go to their site and see.
> > >
> > > Burt, K6OQK
> > >
> > > At 04:46 PM 6/12/2013, time-nuts-request at febo.com wrote
> > >
> > >> Burt
> > >> One other tidbit the phase mod will exactly cause what you see.
> > >> Spectracom used phase tracking to demodulate the AM time signal.
> > >> Thats why its nuts.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 5:49 PM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Burt
> > >> > There is nothing wrong with your 8170. WWVB no longer allows it
> > >> > to work correctly because of the phase modulation. They went to
> > >> > all psk about 1 month ago. They had been reverting back twice a
> > >> > day for things like the 8170.
> > >> > So the ole 8170 is dead.
> > >> > You need to build something like the d-psk-r to get it going
> > >> > though I
> > >> have
> > >> > not had time to actually add the am phase flipper precisely for
> > >> > the
> > >> likes
> > >> > of a 8170. I have one also.
> > >> > Sorry
> > >> > Paul
> > >> > WB8TSL
> > >> >>
> > >> > On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Burt I. Weiner <biwa at att.net>
> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> My good old Spectracom 8170 is not setting time.  I don't use it
> > >> >> for frequency, just as a clock for my Hazetorium.  I live about
> > >> >> 20 minutes north of downtown Los Angles in Glendale.  The
> > >> >> antenna I'm using is the Ferrite Rod loop in PVC that came with the
> 8170.
> > >> >> It's located on my
> > >> back
> > >> >> porch just laying on the floor with its maximum pickup direction
> > >> towards
> > >> >> Boulder, Colorado.  It has worked reliably for many years in
> > >> >> that
> > >> location.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The symptoms are...
> > >>
> > >
> > > Burt I. Weiner Associates
> > > Broadcast Technical Services
> > > Glendale, California  U.S.A.
> > > biwa at att.net
> > > www.biwa.cc
> > > K6OQK
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