[time-nuts] ThunderBolt Display - Update

Tom Knox actast at hotmail.com
Thu Sep 12 18:03:34 EDT 2013


What makes Ham Radio and the Time Nuts site successful is the comeradery and respect we feel for those with a mutual interest. Time Nuts allows everyone novice to industry professionals in the Time and Frequency community to freely exchange ideas, and perhaps more importantly meet others with a common passion. I have already meet people on this site that have developed into friendships that I will value for the rest of my life.  Lets respect those loft ideals of those who created this irreplaceable resource. I look forward to this site continuing to be a place I go for both knowledge and enjoyment. In addition I enjoy seeing new products that may be of interest to us "Nuts" like the Time Pod and these TB displays, but perhaps an additional link where everyone from individual inventors to giants like Agilent could present T&F products and post research papers would be a cool idea and perhaps lead to a revenue stream that could help fund the site to insure it will be here for generations to come. So lets say Agilent shows off the New 53230A, we could then post comments on our impressions of it strengths and weaknesses.
Thanks again to all that contribute on this site.
Best Wishes;

Thomas Knox



> From: GandalfG8 at aol.com
> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 17:12:48 -0400
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] ThunderBolt Display - Update
> 
> Oh dear, was it something you said?
>  
>  
>  
> In a message dated 12/09/2013 21:01:42 GMT Daylight Time,  
> robert8rpi at yahoo.co.uk writes:
> 
> Hi  Adam,
> I have copied this to our outmoded reflector. At least it's low noise  and 
> high quality.
> 
> Sorry but dispite having been a licenced amateur for  35 years, I don't 
> meet your 55+ demographic.
> I am aware that amateur radio  has an aging demographic. That is why I have 
> tutored for the UK licence for 30  years with student ages as low as 10. 
> 
> If you paid $3k for 50  double sided PTH PCBs you need to find a new 
> supplier.
> 
> I HAVE invested  my own money in group projects (not time nuts), in one 
> case an PIC driven LCD  display add on for an instrument. I was able to sell 
> these on ebay for $75 and  to list/group members for $50. Circuit, source code 
> and Hex file are published  and freely available. I also supplied 
> programmed PICs on request. So you are  wrong in your statement "I seriously doubt 
> somebody like you would" (invest in  making up kits for a group. I do value my 
> own time which is why I don't waste  it on email forums full of people who 
> have lots of opinion but no  knowledge.
> 
> You are correct, I don't contribute much to Time Nuts, I'm  here to learn. 
> I have contributed the odd manual PDF (originals purchased and  scanned by 
> myself) and some bits and pieces to members off-list.
> 
> I also  sell support software on PROM for other equipment, again at 
> discount to  relevant list members and with full details available. Many people do 
> prefer  to pay me to program devices, but at least I give them the option 
> and  assistance to do it themselves.
> 
> 
> Don't know what you typed into  google, but when I put g8rpi in the third 
> item was an open design for a low  noise high voltage power supply of mine. 
> You don't have to waffle on on  youtube to contribute! You seem very fond of 
> your voice and face.  
> 
> 
> 
> You imply your display is not a commercial product. I guess  its not as it 
> does not appear to comply with C-Tick, FCC or CE requirements  :-)
> 
> 
> I'm aware of the time and effort required to make webpages,  I've had 
> formal training on the subject.
> I don't have a webpage, I  contribute directly to specific groups. I don't 
> need to boost my ego  online.
> Your main website looks like a shop to me. Your other webpage  
> http://www.qsl.net/vk4cp/ is "interesting"
> Your other "product" the Icom  Multi-send looks a great design, or not. $79 
> for a PIC 3 Sil relay a few  connectors and an undrilled case.
> 
> 
> On your display, why no  circuit? looking at the pictures it has TWO 28 pin 
> Microchip devices. If these  are both MCUs I don't think much of your 
> coding skills My display used a  single 14 pin PIC. 
> 
> And a rotary SWITCH for mode selection, how quaint  and old fashioned. Also 
> why the 3.3V regulator? 
> 
> You claim 0.02V  accuracy. Really? I see no voltage reference and if you 
> are using the PICs  internal ADC thats only 10 bits so about 0.015V resolution 
> for 0-15V input.  With no other errors that's 0.03V (+_1 LSB) at best. I 
> guess you could have a  Vref and offset circuit on the other side of the PCB 
> though.
> Couldn't you  have included your "commander" functionaliy? This would save 
> users from the  messing about with programmers that you seem to think they 
> hate (yes I know  you said you have supplied programmed chips).
> 
> Don't know what problem  you have with engineers, without them you would 
> not have much  equipment.
> For the record I'm a Chartered Engineer, Member of the Royal  Aeronautical 
> Society. I've been a licenced aircraft engineer for 30 years and  currently 
> design avionics and systems. That includes work on VH aircraft, this  grumpy 
> old engineer may have designed a critical part on the next aircraft you  
> fly on!
> 
> 
> I did not "initiate a personal attack on somebody," nor did  I say that you 
> do not contribute anything (I said you did not contribute to  the Time nuts 
> list, by your own admission you don't). I asked three questions.  Obviously 
> these touched a nerve.
> 
> 
> 
> G'day,
> 
> Robert Atkinson  CEng MRAeS  G8RPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From:  Adam Maurer <misc at vklogger.com>
> To: Robert Atkinson  <robert8rpi at yahoo.co.uk> 
> Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2013,  13:13
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] ThunderBolt Display -  Update
> 
> 
> 
> Robert, I don’t bother with email reflectors, because  they are too last 
> century.
> email reflectors are ok if you are 55+, but  they do not do anything 
> positive to engage the much needed younger  demographic into ham radio.
> 
> In case you haven’t noticed, ham  radio is literally dying of old age.
> Do you honestly think younger people  with smartphone these can get 
> interested in these 1990’s text based email  reflectors?
> They want something more engaging these days.
> I’m sorry (for  you) that your demographic fails to appreciate this.
> 
> I posted  about the display because it was suggested by another ham (who is 
> a  timenuts member) that I might be able to help others with a solution.
> Quite  a few timenuts members now have this display, and they absolutely 
> like  it.
> 
> The fact that you have this expectation that everything will  be served on 
> a 
> silver platter for nothing, and obviously place ZERO value  on your own 
> time to 
> develop something like this, don’t automatically  assume everybody else is 
> the 
> same.
> 
> Would you put up over $3k  of your own money to kick start a production run 
> of boards with no  guarantee they will all be sold, let alone get your 
> money 
> back.
> I  seriously doubt somebody like you would.
> But people like you are quick to  shoot down those who do take risks.
> 
> If you want to tinker and  develop something, great.
> Others can be time poor and just want the  opportunity to purchase a ready 
> made solution.
> People like me fill that  void.
> 
> I must say, you come across as a typical grumpy old ham who  expects 
> everything for nothing.
> And, are you familiar with the term  “Tall Poppy  Syndrome”
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome
> 
> If  you had bothered to spend a few minutes to find out, you would have 
> come  
> across my ThunderBolt Commander project.
> PICAXE code is there,  suggested Veroboard layout is there, schematic is 
> all 
> there.
> Whether  you have one of my displays or something else, I couldn’t care, 
> and 
> it’s  freely available to any ThunderBolt user, and many have found it  
> useful.
> I’ve even supplied pre-programmed PICAXEs free of charge to  those who have 
> contacted me that do not have the ability to do  this.
> Have you done something like this recently for fellow  hams?
> 
> And you have the nerve of publically saying I do not  contribute 
> anything.
> If you could let me know what ThunderBolt related  projects you have shared 
> and made available.
> My Google searches are not  finding much at all.
> 
> And what have you made available to the  wider ham community?
> I can’t find your website.
> You do have a website to  openly share information, don’t you?
> 
> If you go to vk4ghz.com,  which was only launched 2 months ago, you will 
> see 
> how much info I share  on projects.
> Being web illiterate, you may not appreciate how much time it  takes to 
> take 
> photos, Photoshop them, and write things up.
> Of course, I  could just do what the typical grumpy old man does, and not 
> publish  anything on the internet... and just moan about others on some 1990
> ’s  
> email reflector.
> I don’t wish to stereotype, but this is all too common  for hams in the 50+ 
> demo.
> 
> I still can’t find much from you on  the internet though?
> Perhaps Google is broken.
> Why won’t YOU share  things and contribute to the broader community?
> 
> I also run a ham  radio forum, with almost 2,000 members.
> It’s relatively large for this  region, and many non-VK members have stated 
> how useful it is.
> It has  literally cost me many of thousands of dollars to run over the last 
>  
> decade, and the pitiful donations have never covered the running  costs.
> So again, what have you done, and how much have you contributed back  into 
> the ham community?
> Have you personally spent several thousand of  your own Pounds helping 
> hams, 
> and creating a community.
> Probably  not.
> People who whinge about things not being free aren’t usually the types  to 
> help others. 
> They consume, they don’t  contribute.
> Period.
> 
> Next time you initiate a personal attack  on somebody, try and do a bit of 
> basic research first to see how much they  may have put back into the 
> community 
> before trolling for  supporters.
> 
> If you honestly think sending a few emails within a  closed email group has 
> helped the wider ham radio community more than I,  then I salute you.
> 
> I see you haven’t contributed one post on the  Audi-sport forum since 
> joining.
> Why is that?
> 
> You haven’t  contributed anything to the Aviation Forum either since 
> joining.
> Why is  that?
> 
> “I'm a professional engineer, electronics by training but  have also done 
> systems, mechanical and robotics.”
> 
> We have all  heard the jokes about “engineers”.
> 
> So if you want to start some  public debate on how much we have both 
> contributed to the wider ham  community, I’m up for it.
> My digital footprint is out there, and the time  investment back into the 
> hobby can easily be appreciated.
> 
> And  if you honestly think 50 hand built units is some “commercial product”
> , 
> we  need to redefine some terms.
> And I’m hardly about to get rich by this,  BTW.
> Do you have any idea how time consuming it is to manage a project like  
> this?
> I could have just ignored the on going requests to make another  
> batch.
> Some guys have been waiting since last December for more units,  and they 
> appreciate the value adding.
> Do you understand that  concept?
> 
> In fact, the next time I tell somebody I can’t be bother  helping them, I 
> will remember your callsign, and your nasty public  email.
> G 8 Really Pathetic Individual.
> Easy phonetics to  remember.
> 
> WB6BNQ obviously has issues in allowing free  enterprise, which is a bit 
> strange for a Yank.
> A 5 second search  reveals that WB6BNQ is a member of “the Island of misfit 
> hams”  forum.
> https://forums.hamisland.net/member.php/914-WB6BNQ?tab=activitystream&type=a
> ll&page=7
> Guess  what?
> No posts. No contributions. No effort spent in sharing things  there.
> 
> He’s also a member of the PICAXE forum, but guess  what?
> No posts, no contributions there  either.
> http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/member.php?10054-WB6BNQ
> Just  another hypocrite.
> I should contact the relevant administrators and suggest  he be removed 
> from 
> a lack of postings.
> 
> You two make a great  pair.
> 
> I could on and on, but it’s rather  pointless.
> 
> I could have also easily CCed this to the TimeNuts  reflector, but I am not 
> going to stoop down to your level.
> Both you and  I know how much you HAVEN’T done for others, and that is 
> enough for  me.
> Although very tempting, I don’t need to put you down and question your  
> moltives on a public resource.
> 
> So what circuits and code can  you make available to me?
> 
> If you could spend a week or so in  taking pictures, creating web content, 
> writing up manuals, and doing  videos, that would be great.
> Not to mention, I’d like you to spend several  months in R&D at 
> absolutely no cost to me as well.
> I’d also like  you to subsidise the postage costs to me, even though a 
> round 
> trip to the  PO is about an hour, and I could have spent this time doing 
> something  else.
> Can you also give some units away at ham  conventions?
> 
> What else can you do for me, for absolutely free,  because I place no value 
> on your time and expertise, Mr  Engineer.
> 
> How many other people have you pre-judged, and  questioned their motives in 
> public?
> 
> If you and WB6BNQ want to  remove me from the TimeNuts forum, you go for 
> it.
> No skin off my nose  at all.
> It just demonstrates how petty people like you really  are.
> 
> Enjoy your hobby.
> A very sincere  73.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Robert Atkinson  
> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 4:22 PM
> To: Adam 
> Maurer ;  Discussion of precise time and frequency 
> measurement 
> Subject: Re:  [time-nuts] ThunderBolt Display - 
> Update
> Hi Adam,
> If you "do  not normally monitor this email reflector" or contribute 
> to it, why are  you using it it promote your commecial product?
> Are you going to make the  circuit and code (or programmed MCUs) 
> available to list  members?
> 
> Robert G8RPI.
> 
> From: Adam Maurer  
> <misc at vklogger.com>
> To: time-nuts at febo.com 
> Sent: Thursday, 12  September 2013, 6:56
> Subject: [time-nuts] ThunderBolt Display -  
> Update
> 
> 
> Hello all
> 
> An update:
> ThunderBolt 
> Display  started shipping over a week ago.
> 31 out the 50 have already been  
> sold.
> 
> I have made a video on the display, and you can see a working  
> example here:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSSZ6BcggBo
> 
> Any new  
> orders for the  “jumbo” sized green and standard sized inverted blue  
> variants will incur a 2 week wait, as these LCDs are only ordered in  
> as-required.
> I do have a number of standard sized green units available  for 
> immediate shipping though on a first-in basis.
> 
> I am away for 3  weeks in 
> October, so if you want a display sooner than later, you should  consider 
> placing 
> an order in the next few days, as it take 2 weeks for the  LCDs to 
> arrive.
> 
> For more information of this device, please refer  to:
> http://vk4ghz.com/thunderbolt-display/
> You will find the 
> latest  revision of User Guide and Tech Supplement PDFs available as  
> well.
> PayPal is welcome on the proviso I receive the full amount and  you take 
> care of any PayPal fees, if applicable.
> (This changes from one  region to 
> another)
> One way to avoid fees is to make sure your PayPal  account has funds 
> in it, and never draw upon other accounts (especially a  credit 
> card).
> 
> Once these are gone, they are gone, and 130 units  will be out 
> there in 12 countries (so far).
> 
> I do not normally  monitor this email 
> reflector, so please email me directly, if you want to  obtain a 
> ThunderBolt 
> Display.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Adam,  
> VK4GHZ
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