[time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 15 Mhz and 10 Mhz

paul swed paulswedb at gmail.com
Mon Dec 1 22:17:30 EST 2014


On the power amp I have found what I believe is the place to inject a
signal in to to drive the output.
Will try it tomorrow.
I plan to leave the 15 MHz alone as no idea if something else does use it.
Essentially leave the signal that feeds pin 8 of the analog gate alone.
The cap that feeds the output system is just beyond that point. Sort of.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 9:05 PM, Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> My *guess* from looking at roughly how the circuit runs from the OCXO to
> the 15 MHz power amp and then over to the output connector:
>
> 1) There is a fairly complicated filter on the output of the amp. It might
> have traps in it for 5, 10 and 20 MHz. No need for all those parts in a
> doubler….
>
> 2) What ever is turning 5 into 15 MHz is doing a good job. If it can be
> tweaked to double rather than triple that could move things forward quite a
> bit.
>
> 3) If the 15 MHz is used by the “rest of the box” it’s not on any of the
> pins I poked. There are a lot of pins, so I could have missed something.
>
> Obviously my hope is to find a magic IC and move this pin or that pin to
> somewhere else. Now it doubles rather than triples. The rest of the box
> runs fine. Then you start pulling out coils or caps in the output filter.
>
> Lots to dig into.
>
> Bob
>
>
> > On Dec 1, 2014, at 7:54 PM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Bob
> > I really have the board setup now for digging in. You are right the 10
> Mhz
> > going into the 74act14 pin 1 is dirty. By this I mean transistors 208 and
> > 209 that amplify the 10 Mhz are over driven and thats intended. The
> second
> > harmonic is only 20 db down. The actual 5 to 10 Mhz is Q202. Following
> the
> > collector, goes through a number of filters. At the top of the filter a
> > inductor 150J and another R22J goes to a small coupling cap and
> ultimately
> > to Q209.
> >
> > To the side of the coupling cap away from Q209 the 10 Mhz signal is 500mv
> > pp and the other signals are 39 db down. That looks like an interesting
> > point to work with.
> >
> > As sugested it would be good to leverage the output amplifier of the unit
> > and that seems like a pretty reasonable thing to look at. Plus there
> would
> > be no need to drill another hole for a connector.
> > Need to figure out how to snitch a bit of the 10 Mhz signal and then
> buffer
> > and isolate it.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 6:37 PM, Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> Yes, one of the “great unanswered questions” about the KS boxes is how
> to
> >> quickly and easily switch them from a nice clean (useless) 15 MHz
> output to
> >> a nice clean (useful) 10 MHz. The circuit appears to be all discrete
> >> analog. That suggests that a “jumper this, swap that” approach might
> work.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>> On Dec 1, 2014, at 10:11 AM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ​To address the one question Ref1s have no 10 Mhz. Just 15 MHz.
> >>> I have reversed out the various paths but it seems so have others. Must
> >>> have missed that thread. I do see the 5 to 10 doubler is in the
> q200-q203
> >>> region. I can't speak to the qualities of the signals and still have
> not
> >>> found the magical X+Y= 15 Mhz.
> >>> So what are folks doing that just have ref 1s?
> >>> Is this the discussion on buffering the 5 Mhz and doubling?
> >>> Regards
> >>> Paul​
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 7:43 AM, Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi
> >>>>
> >>>> Given the level of phase noise on the Ref-0 10 MHz output, I would not
> >>>> *want* to use the same pin they get that off of ….
> >>>>
> >>>> Bob
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Dec 1, 2014, at 6:25 AM, Götz Romahn <goetz at g-romahn.de> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> @ Paul
> >>>>> yes pin 1 of U206 is the input of a schmitt-trigger ( xxACT14 ) where
> >>>> the rectangular 10 MHz output on the Ref-0 Modul is generated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> @ David
> >>>>> 10 MHz is not available on the Ref-1 module, the one with antenna
> input
> >>>> (yea, but it is still at pin 1 of U206).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Götz
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Am 01.12.2014 04:09, :
> >>>>>> OK so it was not as hard as I thought getting all of teh screws out.
> >> The
> >>>>>> harder part is getting the actual board to slip out of the back.
> >>>>>> After getting to the bottom I found a locked 10 Mhz signal on U206
> >> pin 1
> >>>>>> somewhat of a sine wave but compressed top and bottom at 5 V and pin
> >> 2 a
> >>>>>> squared up version. Pin 1 goes off to several transistors. Also I
> have
> >>>> not
> >>>>>> looked at the rest of u206.
> >>>>>> So good or bad a tracking 10 Mhz exists. Not so easy to get to
> >> frankly.
> >>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>> Paul
> >>>>>> WB8TSL
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