[time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z381...

W4wj at aol.com W4wj at aol.com
Tue Nov 18 15:19:47 EST 2014


TNX Peter!!
 
I had only seen a picture of REF1, with no GPS  connector!!
 
73
Don
W4WJ
 
 
In a message dated 11/18/2014 1:07:07 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
pch.tns at gmail.com writes:

Hi  Don,

J7, marked GPS antenna is a good start. This connector also powers  your 
GPS Antenna.

Take care

Peter
HB9DQY


> On  18 Nov 2014, at 11:49, Anthony Roby <aroby at antamy.com> wrote:
>  
> If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set  of 
photos I posted.  This one  
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the front  of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
> 
> Anthony
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: time-nuts  [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Don 
Murray via  time-nuts
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
> To:  time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent  KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom 
Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
> 
> Hello  all...
> 
> Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
>  
> My stupid question (s)...
> 
> Where does the GPS antenna  connect??
> 
> Does the GPS antenna port power the  antenna?
> 
> Need a replacement for my dead HP  Z3816A...   ;-(
> 
> TIA...
> 
> 
>  
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ 
> 
> 
> 
> In a  message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
mark at alignedsolutions.com writes:
> 
> One of  my Z3805's  (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs 
> similarly  at  times to the 58503A mentioned by Said.   From an adev  
perspective 
> it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred  seconds or so  
iirc.) 
> At times though the output seems to "jump"  in  frequency.   My other 
Z3805 
> from the same source  doesn't work as  well.
> 
> None of the 10811's in my various  pieces of test gear (some of  which I 
basically purchased to get the  10811's) worked all that well from an  Adev 
perspective.  I used to  buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction  site with 
> 10811's and  the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices.     At least I 
still  have 
> a nice collection of frequency counters.
> 
>  
> Sent  from my iPad
> 
> On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM,  Said Jackson via time-nuts  
<time-nuts at febo.com>
>  wrote:
> 
>> Correct on all counts  Bob.
>>  
>> My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV  and  PN
> measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I  have  
Wenzel ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any  usable  ADEV).  I 
also have a costly BVA and it can't compete  against the HP  unit.
>> 
>> Those 10811s just  rule.
>> 
>> In fact my  only complaint about the  58503A are the 60Hz related small
> spurs you can see  in the  plots...
>> 
>> Bye,
>> Said
>>  
>> Sent From  iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 17,  2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp  <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>>>  
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> The 58503 is a Z3801 with  a pretty instrument style package put  
>>> around
> it  - right?
>>> 
>>> If so, it might / should    have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO. 
> The 10811 is rated for  -155 dbc at  100 Hz. That is much better than the 
noise floor that the  MTI ??s seem to  produce at 100 Hz. About the only 
other GPSDO OCXO that  gets to that level is  the one in the original TBolts . 
There you very  much have to deal with spurs.  That make the noise floor of 
limited use  in a practical system. 
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>>  
>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM,  SAIDJACK at aol.com  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi   Bob,
>>>> 
>>>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten,  no doubt.  The 15MHz plot is quite 
>>>> good
> till  about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty  rotten  too.
>>>> 
>>>> Here is one of my 58503A  units  (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
> comparison.. measured against  our DROR-IIA (this  plot was actually done 
to show the DROR-IIA PN, but  since that unit actually  has less noise and 
spurs than the 58503A we can  simply use it as the reference  for this 
purpose).
>>>>  
>>>> The good news is that  getting the close-in phase  noise to be good 
>>>> is
> very hard to do and the  unit  delivers that out-of-the box already. 
Filtering out the noise and  spurs above  40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It 
should be fairly  straight forward to  cobble up a small PN filter for those 
units to get  rid of the noise and spurs  above 40Hz offset.
>>>>  
>>>> bye,
>>>> Said
>>>>  
>>>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46  Pacific  Standard Time,
> kb8tq at n1k.org writes:
>>>>  Hi
>>>> 
>>>> Here ??s the phase noise on the 15  MHz.  There are a few spurs, and 
>>>> an
> very  real hump out at the likely frequency of  the Lucent switcher.  The 
 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of  the other units I ??ve  
seen on the surplus market. 
>>>> 
>>>> I would  not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband  multiplier.  
>>>> I
> would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with  a rational  bandwidth. 
You will beat the noise on the output with a  fairly simple VHF VCXO  past 100 
Hz. 
> No reason to have a  bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.  
>>>>  
>>>> Math:
>>>> 
>>>> 15   MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
>>>>  
>>>> -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120  dbc/Hz
>>>> 
>>>> You can get numbers better  than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset  out of 
>>>> a
>  number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to   
work fine for him. 
>>>> 
>>>>  Bob
>>>> 
>>>>  <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
>>> 
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