[time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z381...

pch.tns pch.tns at gmail.com
Tue Nov 18 15:20:49 EST 2014


Hi all

The easiest setup to get 10MHz out of the15MHz is using a SiLabs5351C and program it 15MHz in and 10MHz out. You have 8 outputs you can define.
Pics of my setup here  <https://www.dropbox.com/s/h5qrxwfb3fkshen/IMG_1465.JPG?dl=0>and here <https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvg6vebxih8ih2s/IMG_1466.jpg?dl=0>. I am using this for all my SDR’s and conventional Rx/Tx with 10 MHz ref inputs. Works great.

Rgds

Peter, HB9DQY



> On 18 Nov 2014, at 15:09, Don Murray via time-nuts <time-nuts at febo.com> wrote:
> 
> TNX Paul and Anthony...
> 
> More questions...   ;-)
> 
> I see that the REF1 type unit outputs 15MHz...
> 
> The REF0 unit has both 15MHz and 10MHz...
> 
> So, if I am going to use GPS, I need REF1, but it only does  15MHz out,
> and I need 10MHz for my stuff...  so how do REF1 and REF0  interface??
> Or does it work that way??
> 
> TNX guys!!
> 
> 
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 11/18/2014 12:28:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
> paulswedb at gmail.com writes:
> 
> In the  picture its the top unit ref1 and its the left hand TNC and it does
> power  the antenna.
> If no antenna you need to tie a resistor to ground on the tnc  to fake it
> out.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at  11:49 AM, Anthony Roby <aroby at antamy.com> wrote:
> 
>> If you  search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of
>> photos I posted.  This one
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the
>> front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
>> 
>> Anthony
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: time-nuts  [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Don
>> Murray via  time-nuts
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
>> To:  time-nuts at febo.com
>> Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent  KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom
>> Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
>> 
>> Hello all...
>> 
>> Just getting up to speed on the  KS-24361...
>> 
>> My stupid question (s)...
>> 
>> Where  does the GPS antenna connect??
>> 
>> Does the GPS antenna port power  the antenna?
>> 
>> Need a replacement for my dead HP  Z3816A...   ;-(
>> 
>> TIA...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 73
>> Don
>> W4WJ
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52  A.M. Central Standard Time,
>> mark at alignedsolutions.com  writes:
>> 
>> One of  my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811  ocxo iirc) also performs
>> similarly at  times to the 58503A  mentioned by Said.   From an adev
>> perspective
>>  it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so   
> iirc.)
>> At times though the output seems to "jump" in   frequency.   My other 
> Z3805
>> from the same source doesn't  work as  well.
>> 
>> None of the 10811's in my various pieces  of test gear (some of  which I
>> basically purchased to get the  10811's) worked all that well from an  
> Adev
>> perspective.  I  used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction  site 
> with
>> 10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices.     At  least I
>> still have
>> a nice collection of frequency  counters.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent  from my iPad
>> 
>> On  2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts   
> <time-nuts at febo.com
>>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Correct on all counts  Bob.
>>> 
>>> My two 58503A units  from China are great for both ADEV  and PN
>> measurements, better  than anything else I have as a combo (I have  Wenzel
>> ULNs for  even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable  ADEV).   I
>> also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP   unit.
>>> 
>>> Those 10811s just rule.
>>> 
>>> In fact my  only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related  small
>> spurs you can see  in the plots...
>>> 
>>> Bye,
>>> Said
>>> 
>>> Sent From   iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp   <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi
>>>> 
>>>> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style  package put
>>>> around
>> it - right?
>>>> 
>>>> If so, it might / should   have a 10811 in  it rather than an MTI OCXO.
>> The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at   100 Hz. That is much better than the
>> noise floor that the MTI ??s seem  to  produce at 100 Hz. About the only
>> other GPSDO OCXO that gets  to that level is  the one in the original 
> TBolts
>> . There you very  much have to deal with spurs.  That make the noise floor
>> of  limited use in a practical system.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM,   SAIDJACK at aol.com wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi   Bob,
>>>>> 
>>>>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten,  no doubt.  The 15MHz plot is quite
>>>>> good
>> till  about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty  rotten too.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here is one of my 58503A units  (using  the 10811 OCXO) as a
>> comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA  (this  plot was actually done
>> to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since  that unit actually  has less noise and
>> spurs than the 58503A we  can simply use it as the reference  for this
>> purpose).
>>>>> 
>>>>> The good news is that  getting the  close-in phase noise to be good
>>>>> is
>> very hard to  do and the unit  delivers that out-of-the box already.
>> Filtering  out the noise and spurs above  40Hz offset is pretty easy to 
> do.
>> It should be fairly straight forward to  cobble up a small PN filter  for
>> those units to get rid of the noise and spurs  above 40Hz  offset.
>>>>> 
>>>>> bye,
>>>>> Said
>>>>> 
>>>>> In a message  dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46  Pacific Standard Time,
>> kb8tq at n1k.org  writes:
>>>>> Hi
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here ??s the phase noise on the 15 MHz.  There are a few  spurs, and
>>>>> an
>> very real hump out at the likely  frequency of  the Lucent switcher.  The
>> 15 MHz is pretty  clean compared to most /all of  the other units I ??ve
>> seen on  the surplus market.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would not  multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband  multiplier.
>>>>> I
>> would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a  rational  bandwidth. You
>> will beat the noise on the output with a  fairly simple VHF VCXO  past 100
>> Hz.
>> No reason to have a  bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Math:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 15  MHz to  150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120  dbc/Hz
>>>>> 
>>>>> You can get numbers better  than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset  out of
>>>>> a
>> number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to
>> work fine for him.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bob
>>>>> 
>>>>> <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
>>>> 
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