[time-nuts] OT: Eagle PC CAD now Autodesk, $500/year

Sat Jan 21 10:26:37 EST 2017

Hi

The interesting point about “who said what” is that Autodesk people stated
*after* the acquisition that the Eagle  license model would not change … 
That’s one of the reasons I’d like to wait a bit and see what those same 
people say now.

Bob

> On Jan 21, 2017, at 9:43 AM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> What can I add to this thats not been said.
> This is how software is moving and it did start with Autodesk who sacked
> there original license model for the subscription approach and is making a
> ton of money that way. Its annuity. A gift that keeps on giving. Meanwhile
> they add bloat-ware for the sake of trying to appear to add some value....
> I can go on but as all of you have observed it is what it is. Sitting back
> and griping will not change it. Its a major corporate direction change
> especially if a company was acquired. Its really not going to change. When
> a company is acquired what ever had been stated positions no longer matter.
> Its not the same company any longer, just the same name.
> So exploring alternates as you are all doing is great and helpful.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 4:42 PM, Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 20, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Chris Albertson <albertson.chris at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It could be what they are doing is purposely trying to "blow off"
>>> their less desirable customers.
>>> 
>>> I explained this to someone I know who was upset at a large bank she
>>> deals with.  She said she would move "all her money out of the bank"
>>> all $5,000 of it.    I explain to her that was EXACTLY what the bank
>>> wanted and the reason for the policies she experienced.   Small
>>> customers with $5K deposits are not profitable.    So Autodesk is
>>> selling subscriptions for $500 and offering "one on one" sport.
>> 
>> The last time they played this game they found that reducing the
>> subscriber base 1000:1
>> at $500 a year was not as good as 10:1 at $50 a year.  That’s why I
>> suggest that people
>> wait a bit and see what happens over the next few months. Eagle does not
>> have what it takes
>> to compete as a PCB program for the big guys. There is no great big block
>> of licenses at the Fortune
>> 500 to milk in this case. The user base is large. It is made up of the
>> small, price sensitive guys. Each
>> time the Eagle license stuff has been fiddled in the past, it’s been a
>> disaster because of that.
>> 
>> The Eagle “per customer” cost is nearly zero ( unlike a bank ). It’s
>> really all about how much money they
>> bring in each year. Their costs scale more on a per bug …. errr … per
>> feature basis rather
>> than by the customer (at least for the hobby customer). They will charge
>> what they can as long as
>> people keep signing up. If nobody signs up … they will adjust.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> 
>>> Apple has a neat business model too.   They have like about 18% of the
>>> world's cellphone market but make the MAJORITY of the profit.  What
>>> they do is take the one in five most profitable customers.
>>> 
>>> Maybe Autodesk is looking to do the same thing, take only the most
>>> rich customers and let the others go elsewhere.
>>> 
>>> In the end nicad might be the best for the hobby market.
>>> 
>>> Autodesk is looking to offer the integrated solution where the PCB and
>>> case that it lives in are designed together by a team that is
>>> geographically distributed.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>> 
>>>> I completely agree that their spin at acquisition and the reality of
>> what just came out
>>>> is completely amazing. They said they would never do this and that.
>> What they are doing
>>>> is exactly what they said they would not do.
>>>> 
>>>> It’s a rare board that I do in < 4 layers. It’s also quite normal to
>> have designs above
>>>> 160 CM^2. If I have 4 layers, there *will* be signals on all those
>> layers. That puts me
>>>> squarely in the $500 / yr subscription. A month ago that put me in a
>> perpetual license
>>>> that I paid < 1/2 that for.
>>>> 
>>>> It is not just that the cost has gone up. A number of license
>> “categories” have vanished.
>>>> The free version is still there, and just as useless for what I do.
>> That’s about the only
>>>> one that is rational at this point.
>>>> 
>>>> So yes, I’m at least as bothered by this as anybody else. What I would
>> suggest is to
>>>> take a deep breath, sit back, yell at them a bit (along with everybody
>> else that has
>>>> a license) and see what they do. It is abundantly clear that they have
>> a major disconnect
>>>> between this and what they have said. There is a lot of explaining for
>> them to do. Part of that
>>>> could easily be another couple license categories. I’m certainly in no
>> hurry to switch
>>>> packages.
>>>> 
>>>> Right now Fusion 360 is something I use a LOT  more than I use Eagle.
>> This week (month .. year)
>>>> it is free for me to do that. Why is Fusion free to a basement guy and
>> Eagle pay?
>>>> That’s not at all clear. Fusion is buggy as can be. Eagle needs some
>> updates. Both
>>>> have a lot of development $$$ that they will be sucking up. Yes that
>> has to get paid
>>>> for. It’s not clear that a revenue stream based on hobbyists paying
>> $500 a year
>>>> is rational. My guess is Autodesk will figure that out. They may
>> abandon the whole
>>>> basement thing, they may not …. we’ll see.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
>> richard at karlquist.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Off topic, but probably a lot of disgrunted Eagle users on this list.
>>>>> Its official, you will now have to pay $500 per year for a
>>>>> professional license from Autodesk.  The spin meistering of the
>>>>> announcement would make George Orwell proud.  I don't see any way they
>>>>> can keep me from just using the license I currently own, at least
>>>>> on the OS's it supports.  (Parenthetically, like many users, I
>>>>> am also digging in my heels in terms of staying at Windows 7).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Still, the question arises:  are there any affordable alternatives?
>>>>> Don't have to be entirely free.  I am looking for any trends out
>>>>> there as to what tool will attract a critical mass of users in
>>>>> the future.  There is strength in numbers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Comments?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rick N6RK
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Chris Albertson
>>> Redondo Beach, California
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