[time-nuts] Re: TSC5110
Dwayne
Dwayne.Esterline at krytronx.com
Sun Jun 16 19:14:26 UTC 2024
If you find that there is in fact one of the Dallas or ST real time
clock modules "RTC", i have had success in scraping away the epoxy
potting material until the batter terminals are exposed on top of the
unit. Sever the positive battery terminal tab and solder an external
wire, then repower it with an external cr2032, with common ground.
I have done this on old pc motherboards because of the risk and
complexity of removal and replacement on a high density motherboard.
Regards,
Dwayne Esterline
'As for the battery question: is there per chance a "fat"/ high DIL
chip in there marked Dallas or ST (SGS/Thompson) ? Those ICs have Li
batteries in their 'backpack'. Replacing a depleted battery requires
swapping the entire chip. I think they are speced for 10 years or so
but generally last longer (at least in equipment I saw them in).'
On Jun 16, 2024 2:31 PM, time-nuts-request at lists.febo.com wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Question about TSC5110 (AC0XU (Jim))
2. Re: Question about TSC5110 (Wilko Bulte)
3. Re: Question about TSC5110 (Dave Daniel)
4. Re: Question about TSC5110 (Jim Schatzman)
5. Re: Question about TSC5110 (Adrian Godwin)
6. Re: Question about TSC5110 (Tom Knox)
7. Re: Question about TSC5110 (Glen Hoag)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 15:39:18 -0600
From: "AC0XU (Jim)" <James.Schatzman at ac0xu.com>
Subject: [time-nuts] Question about TSC5110
To: time-nuts at lists.febo.com
Message-ID: <171848761568.5292.15852622757968513726 at mm2.emwd.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period of high
temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just
displayed the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again.
Power cycling gave the same result. Replacing the compact flash card
didn't help.
Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no
changes in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both
units started working!
I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing - I
can't change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS
battery, but I can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard
CR2032 or anything I recognize as a battery. When I try to set the
date/time, the units freeze up and have to be power-cycled.
Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made both
units start working?
Thanks!
Jim
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2024 00:21:18 +0200
From: Wilko Bulte <wkb at xs4all.nl>
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Question about TSC5110
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
<time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
Cc: "AC0XU (Jim)" <James.Schatzman at ac0xu.com>
Message-ID: <0B6FF2AC-677C-4EB4-8E16-02CC9F922C5C at xs4all.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Have you tried swapping the coprocessor cards back? It could be as
simple as re-seating the cards, which in essence is what happened
during the swap. I think a swap-back is worth trying.
As for the battery question: is there per chance a "fat"/ high DIL
chip in there marked Dallas or ST (SGS/Thompson) ? Those ICs have Li
batteries in their 'backpack'. Replacing a depleted battery requires
swapping the entire chip. I think they are speced for 10 years or so
but generally last longer (at least in equipment I saw them in).
Wilko
> On 15 Jun 2024, at 23:55, AC0XU (Jim) via time-nuts
<time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
> I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period of
high temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just
displayed the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again.
Power cycling gave the same result. Replacing the compact flash card
didn't help.
>
> Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no
changes in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both
units started working!
>
> I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing - I
can't change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS
battery, but I can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard
CR2032 or anything I recognize as a battery. When I try to set the
date/time, the units freeze up and have to be power-cycled.
>
> Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
>
> Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made
both units start working?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 18:21:40 -0400
From: Dave Daniel <kc0wjn at gmail.com>
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Question about TSC5110
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
<time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
Message-ID: <5A0CE94D-7C93-449A-B2E4-FFF29C61B375 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Re: the board-swapping phenonenon; I'm not familiar with the TSC5119
but if one swapped boards between a non-functional system and a
functional system, I'd strongly suspect the board connectors.
DaveD
KC0WJN
==============================
All spelling mistakes are the responsibilty of the reader (Rick
Renz, STK, ca. 1994)
==============================
> On Jun 15, 2024, at 17:56, AC0XU (Jim) via time-nuts
<time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
> I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period of
high temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just
displayed the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again.
Power cycling gave the same result. Replacing the compact flash card
didn't help.
>
> Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no
changes in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both
units started working!
>
> I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing - I
can't change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS
battery, but I can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard
CR2032 or anything I recognize as a battery. When I try to set the
date/time, the units freeze up and have to be power-cycled.
>
> Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
>
> Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made
both units start working?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 17:06:20 -0600
From: Jim Schatzman <james.schatzman at futurelabusa.com>
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Question about TSC5110
To: Wilko Bulte <wkb at xs4all.nl>, Discussion of precise time and
frequency measurement <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
Cc: "AC0XU (Jim)" <James.Schatzman at ac0xu.com>
Message-ID: <171849285441.5292.14837651804958722865 at mm2.emwd.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks for the suggestions!
The RTC is an STMicroelectronics M48T86PC1 which is obsolete. They
are available from various sources, but not Digikey and Mouser. I
have ordered some. I just have never seem them before, so I wasn't
looking for a large DIP package to contain a battery. Live and
learn. I am interested to see if the batteries are good in the
available "new" parts, since they are no longer made.
At 04:21 PM 6/15/2024, Wilko Bulte wrote:
>Have you tried swapping the coprocessor cards back? It could be as
simple as re-seating the cards, which in essence is what happened
during the swap. I think a swap-back is worth trying.
>
>As for the battery question: is there per chance a "fat"/ high DIL
chip in there marked Dallas or ST (SGS/Thompson) ? Those ICs have Li
batteries in their 'backpack'. Replacing a depleted battery requires
swapping the entire chip. I think they are speced for 10 years or so
but generally last longer (at least in equipment I saw them in).
>
>Wilko
>
>> On 15 Jun 2024, at 23:55, AC0XU (Jim) via time-nuts
<time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period of
high temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just
displayed the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again.
Power cycling gave the same result. Replacing the compact flash card
didn't help.
>>
>> Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no
changes in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both
units started working!
>>
>> I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing - I
can't change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS
battery, but I can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard
CR2032 or anything I recognize as a battery. When I try to set the
date/time, the units freeze up and have to be power-cycled.
>>
>> Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
>>
>> Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made
both units start working?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Jim
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2024 00:28:39 +0100
From: Adrian Godwin <artgodwin at gmail.com>
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Question about TSC5110
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
<time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
Message-ID:
<CALiMYru_hVwsafqyySsCaarJyeu-N1FGLsMPhGLEp5wdg9asSA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
These timekeeper devices were used in a number of HP products in the
90s,
typically digital scopes and the 53310A MDA. A later variant has the
battery in a removable piggyback part but those replaceable parts
are also
proprietary so replacement is still a nuisance.
A number of people have tried to find a solution and there are
rebuilds
with cion cells, hacked apart ICs with soldered on batteries, etc.
Some of
the devices are battery-backed memory, some have clock/calendar
chips etc.
and the replacement PCB option doesn't cover all the variants.
https://www.tindie.com/products/glitchwrks/gw-1386-1-8k-replacement-
for-dallas-ds1386-module/
https://www.tindie.com/products/glitchwrks/gw-48t08-1-repair-board-m
odule/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svPNxILeQEw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZJDlNoJk7M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxjjtMWErw8
On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 12:13 AM Jim Schatzman via time-nuts <
time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the suggestions!
>
> The RTC is an STMicroelectronics M48T86PC1 which is obsolete. They
are
> available from various sources, but not Digikey and Mouser. I have
ordered
> some. I just have never seem them before, so I wasn't looking for
a large
> DIP package to contain a battery. Live and learn. I am
interested to see
> if the batteries are good in the available "new" parts, since they
are no
> longer made.
>
>
> At 04:21 PM 6/15/2024, Wilko Bulte wrote:
> >Have you tried swapping the coprocessor cards back? It could be
as simple
> as re-seating the cards, which in essence is what happened during
the swap.
> I think a swap-back is worth trying.
> >
> >As for the battery question: is there per chance a "fat"/ high
DIL chip
> in there marked Dallas or ST (SGS/Thompson) ? Those ICs have Li
batteries
> in their 'backpack'. Replacing a depleted battery requires
swapping the
> entire chip. I think they are speced for 10 years or so but
generally last
> longer (at least in equipment I saw them in).
> >
> >Wilko
> >
> >> On 15 Jun 2024, at 23:55, AC0XU (Jim) via time-nuts <
> time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period
of high
> temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just
displayed
> the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again. Power
cycling gave
> the same result. Replacing the compact flash card didn't help.
> >>
> >> Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no
changes
> in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both units
started
> working!
> >>
> >> I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing -
I can't
> change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS battery,
but I
> can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard CR2032 or
anything I
> recognize as a battery. When I try to set the date/time, the
units freeze
> up and have to be power-cycled.
> >>
> >> Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
> >>
> >> Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made
both
> units start working?
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Jim
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2024 00:05:41 +0000
From: Tom Knox <actast at hotmail.com>
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Question about TSC5110
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
<time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
Message-ID:
<PH0PR19MB75513704AB99AB793B74670DDFC32 at PH0PR19MB7551.nam
prd19.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Hi Jim;
I am not sure about the exact part number, but if I remenber
correctly these use a RTC (real time clock chip) that look a lot
like a Dallas memory chip
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/M48T58
Y-70PC1/361258
M48T58Y-70PC1 | DigiKey
Electronics<https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectr
onics/M48T58Y-70PC1/361258>
Order today, ships today. M48T58Y-70PC1 – Real Time Clock (RTC) IC
Clock/Calendar Parallel 28-DIP Module (0.600", 15.24mm) from
STMicroelectronics. Pricing and Availability on millions of
electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.
www.digikey.com
As far as swapping the board, perhaps it was just a touch of
oxidation on the edge connector. You could try swapping them back
and see what happens? Although I have seen several TSC5110A exhibit
this due to a bad power supply.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Tom Knox
SR Test and Measurement Engineer
Phoenix Research Group / Ascent Concepts and Technology
4870 Meredith Way Apt 102
Boulder, Co 80303
Formerly of:
357 Fox Lane
Superior Co 80027
303-554-0307
actast at hotmail.com
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/marshall-fire/superior-man-mov
ing-forward-after-losing-dream-research-lab-during-marshall-fire
"Peace is not the absence of violence, but the presence of Justice"
Both MLK and Albert Einstein
________________________________
From: Jim Schatzman via time-nuts <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2024 5:06 PM
To: Wilko Bulte <wkb at xs4all.nl>; Discussion of precise time and
frequency measurement <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
Cc: AC0XU (Jim) <James.Schatzman at ac0xu.com>; Jim Schatzman
<james.schatzman at futurelabusa.com>
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Question about TSC5110
Thanks for the suggestions!
The RTC is an STMicroelectronics M48T86PC1 which is obsolete. They
are available from various sources, but not Digikey and Mouser. I
have ordered some. I just have never seem them before, so I wasn't
looking for a large DIP package to contain a battery. Live and
learn. I am interested to see if the batteries are good in the
available "new" parts, since they are no longer made.
At 04:21 PM 6/15/2024, Wilko Bulte wrote:
>Have you tried swapping the coprocessor cards back? It could be as
simple as re-seating the cards, which in essence is what happened
during the swap. I think a swap-back is worth trying.
>
>As for the battery question: is there per chance a "fat"/ high DIL
chip in there marked Dallas or ST (SGS/Thompson) ? Those ICs have Li
batteries in their 'backpack'. Replacing a depleted battery requires
swapping the entire chip. I think they are speced for 10 years or so
but generally last longer (at least in equipment I saw them in).
>
>Wilko
>
>> On 15 Jun 2024, at 23:55, AC0XU (Jim) via time-nuts
<time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period of
high temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just
displayed the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again.
Power cycling gave the same result. Replacing the compact flash card
didn't help.
>>
>> Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no
changes in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both
units started working!
>>
>> I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing - I
can't change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS
battery, but I can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard
CR2032 or anything I recognize as a battery. When I try to set the
date/time, the units freeze up and have to be power-cycled.
>>
>> Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
>>
>> Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made
both units start working?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Jim
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 19:55:54 -0500
From: Glen Hoag <hoag at hiwaay.net>
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: Question about TSC5110
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
<time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
Message-ID: <FDFF0989-C71E-4A98-80D7-92BE7158679E at hiwaay.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
The constant rebooting makes me think that the power supply is
failing. Leaky/bad capacitors would be the most common culprit.
—Glen
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 15, 2024, at 18:44, Adrian Godwin via time-nuts
<time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>
> These timekeeper devices were used in a number of HP products in
the 90s,
> typically digital scopes and the 53310A MDA. A later variant has
the
> battery in a removable piggyback part but those replaceable parts
are also
> proprietary so replacement is still a nuisance.
>
> A number of people have tried to find a solution and there are
rebuilds
> with cion cells, hacked apart ICs with soldered on batteries, etc.
Some of
> the devices are battery-backed memory, some have clock/calendar
chips etc.
> and the replacement PCB option doesn't cover all the variants.
>
>
https://www.tindie.com/products/glitchwrks/gw-1386-1-8k-replacement-
for-dallas-ds1386-module/
>
https://www.tindie.com/products/glitchwrks/gw-48t08-1-repair-board-m
odule/
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svPNxILeQEw
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZJDlNoJk7M
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxjjtMWErw8
>
>
>
>
>> On Sun, Jun 16, 2024 at 12:13 AM Jim Schatzman via time-nuts <
>> time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestions!
>>
>> The RTC is an STMicroelectronics M48T86PC1 which is obsolete.
They are
>> available from various sources, but not Digikey and Mouser. I
have ordered
>> some. I just have never seem them before, so I wasn't looking for
a large
>> DIP package to contain a battery. Live and learn. I am
interested to see
>> if the batteries are good in the available "new" parts, since
they are no
>> longer made.
>>
>>
>> At 04:21 PM 6/15/2024, Wilko Bulte wrote:
>>> Have you tried swapping the coprocessor cards back? It could be
as simple
>> as re-seating the cards, which in essence is what happened during
the swap.
>> I think a swap-back is worth trying.
>>>
>>> As for the battery question: is there per chance a "fat"/ high
DIL chip
>> in there marked Dallas or ST (SGS/Thompson) ? Those ICs have Li
batteries
>> in their 'backpack'. Replacing a depleted battery requires
swapping the
>> entire chip. I think they are speced for 10 years or so but
generally last
>> longer (at least in equipment I saw them in).
>>>
>>> Wilko
>>>
>>>> On 15 Jun 2024, at 23:55, AC0XU (Jim) via time-nuts <
>> time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have several TSC5110s. One stopped working after a period
of high
>> temps in the lab. It wouldn't complete the boot process - just
displayed
>> the spash screen, flashed off, then splash screen again. Power
cycling gave
>> the same result. Replacing the compact flash card didn't help.
>>>>
>>>> Swapping cards between two units one at a time, there were no
changes
>> in behavior until I swapped the co-processor card. Then both
units started
>> working!
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure what that is about. But I notice another thing -
I can't
>> change the date/time on either unit. I suspect the CMOS battery,
but I
>> can't find it. The CPU boards don't have the standard CR2032 or
anything I
>> recognize as a battery. When I try to set the date/time, the
units freeze
>> up and have to be power-cycled.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone know how to locate the battery on these CPU boards?
>>>>
>>>> Also, any thoughts on why swapping the co-processor cards made
both
>> units start working?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave at lists.febo.com
------------------------------
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