[time-nuts] Re: anyone have the earlier version of Agilent E5500 phase noise test software

[Scott Qi]

thank you Adam, I got the picture from other friend of the adapter 
E5505A-60001, but seems a little complex, I think I need to take the 
card then try to draw the schematic. I really do not want to add a heavy 
tool in my desktop in just 89410A. other module works OK, include 
license, in Win7 32 bit OS.

Regards/Scott

Cell number & whatsapp: +1 808 308 7601

On 9/30/2024 9:02 PM, Adam MacDonald wrote:
> Scott,
>
> It has been a while since I experimented with the 6111 as a digitizer in my system.  I typically use an 89410A like Ed.  Works great.
>
> I do not have the E5505A-60001 adapter you are looking for.  I did try to make a 6111 system work in a PC configuration.  But as I recall, you need to short the high (or perhaps low) bit of the 8-bit digital input to the 6111 to get the software to start up.  I held the bit low with a 1K resistor.
>
> I believe I reverse-engineered a -60003 interface from pictures of the traces and it was fairly simple, as Ed described.  I’ll try to find that schematic for you.  But you need to get the software working first - I used the NI driver that came with the prerequisite install.
>
> Ultimately, I highly recommend the 89410A approach.  I too tried and failed with VXI e1430A and 37A boards.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Adam MacDonald
> 850-460-5535
>
>
>> On Sep 30, 2024, at 15:14, Scott Qi via time-nuts<time-nuts at lists.febo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi ED, thank you for the prompt response, I do not want the phase noise tester is so huge, that is why I insist using the PCI card (or try to use the ISA card), I never try the 89410A or VXI kit, from your description, you mean the input daughterboard of NI PCI-6111 is different? the input of PCI-6111 is pseudodifferential inputs, PCI-6111E is differential input, the card number is 184174H-01, 6111E is 184174F-01, from the hardware, there is no difference between the 2 sub cards; I just need the adapter (E5505A-60001, SMA interface) then can setup the system, if no such adapter, the software start (latest one in win10 64bit system), will remind you the termination error, I believe the adapter exists the termination circuit.
>>
>> Regards/scott
>>
>>> On 9/30/24 8:21 AM, Ed Marciniak<ed at nb0m.org> wrote:
>>> I have some findings worth mentioning:
>>> If using a VXI digitizer, such as the E1430 or E1437, it would appear that the windows 7 32 bit download plus pre-requisites package is missing some pieces that provide the api to talk to the digitizer card. The card shows up, but everything is grayed out in the soft front panel. I couldn’t get an E1430 to work with any software version using an MXI-2 interface or a FireWire interface to work. Someone else never managed to get an E1437 to work. It is possible that if someone had an install CD, that the missing files might be there and probably could be used on other versions. I never found a decent price on an E1437. My direct experience was with the e1430. I tried to help someone make the E1437 work and he ran in same problems as I did.
>>> The software installer package OS version checking appears to be why you can’t use the Win7 version on win10 32 bit. If installing the 32 bit edition on a 64 bit system, only the viewer is installed. This is maddening because large parts of the dependencies are 32 bit anyway even on the later 64 bit editions.
>>> The windows 7 and older use licensing based on the test set serial number. The windows 10 version uses licensing based on the hostid as reported by the licensing software. The bad news is that without the later Kontron PC with a serial number on its chassis that was licensed as a phase noise system, or a sales order number from which Keysight is able to look up the serial number, getting a license generated is unlikely to happen. The ability to generate licenses is delegated to manufacturing, and they either can’t (presumably due to automation) or won’t due to company policy. I’d be happy to hear from anyone with insight on this.
>>> The newer PXIe based system would have the same licensing problem with a twist. If one acquired a stripped chassis with an E5510 serial number, it might be possible to fit a non-original embedded processor and get a license generated. In theory the software, if you break open the installer wrapper and don’t install a conflicting piece(the FFT library) you could use an older test set and an instrument that serves as an FFT analyzer(such as an 89410A) rather than the cards that go into the chassis. The chassis most certainly won’t physically fit an NI PCI6111. Because of the licensing has license to use piecemeal, you’d need a license generated that includes LTUs for the 89410A or similar. I’m not even sure if they can or would generate a license adding that for a truly unsupported combination they never sold.
>>> The Kontron windows 10 controller is no longer available for sale, in part because the supplier no longer offers the components, so they can’t sell you one even if your wallet was fat enough.
>>> All this would change if someone cracked the windows 10 software. I wouldn’t shed a tear to discover someone had, but I can’t exactly suggest someone do so. It would be smart if Keysight were to come up with a way to support users (with licensing) needing to upgrade a system that works for the purposes of mitigation of gaping security holes for people resourceful enough to attempt an upgrade on their own. The risk of not doing so is that someone gets pissed off and makes general exploits on all of their modern software rather than for one specific system. If that’s not enough incentive it would at least motivate some people to not try to buy anything other than Keysight based on a bad experience.
>>> All that said, an instrument off the supported list of FFT analyzers(such as an 89410A) with windows 7 32 bit can be made to work.
>>> I do not know of anyone specifically who’s made a PCI 6111 card work with the available downloads, but also don’t know of anyone who’s found they can’t make it work.
>>> If anyone has installs CDs or CD images from any version, I’d be really interested in seeing if the files are there that would make digitizers on the supported hardware list work that I never could.
>>> The last point worth mentioning is that the PCI6111 digitizer card has a specific analog board on it. The part number escapes me at the moment but it's not hard to find. I'd expect based on the NI documentation that the one DAC output and ADC output could be found with an oscilloscope and signal generator even if nobody has the adapter available for disassembly. I'd expect you'd find a 4MHz low pass filter with at least several filter polls for fast rolloff, plus DC blocking capacitors unless the analog daughterboard includes both.
>>> At the time, I got a used 89410A cheap after giving a shot with the E1430 and failing, and not wanting to start with an FFT analyzer so old some use bubble memory. The reason I didn't do an 89410A first is at the time there weren't any cheap units available and the PCI 6111 cards were selling for $800-1500 used. I didn't try an E1437 because those didn't seem to be available for less than $1000 at the time. Aside from the physical bulk and quantity of warm air generated, I get 10MHz baseband instead of 25.5KHz,102.4KHz, 4MHz/8MHz baseband.
>>> For a spectrum analyzer, if using the 70000 series MMS, the 70900A doesn't work. You have to have a 70900B for software compatibility.
>>> Based on 200-300 hours spent, I did succeed in piecing together a working system, stuck at windows 7 32 bit.
>>> I'd be happy to chat for a while on the phone if interested.
>>> Ed Marciniak
>>> +1-612-275-2168 (text or leave a voicemail first if I don't answer from a number I don't recognize).
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* Scott Qi via time-nuts<time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 29, 2024 9:46:36 PM
>>> *To:*time-nuts at lists.febo.com <time-nuts at lists.febo.com>
>>> *Cc:* Scott Qi<scott.qi at gmail.com>
>>> *Subject:* [time-nuts] anyone have the earlier version of Agilent E5500 phase noise test software
>>> Hi all,
>>> the Agilent E5500 phase noise measurement system can be built based on
>>> PC platform, it had several software version till now from 1999:
>>> A.01.0x, the earliest version, WIN NT 4.0, FFT card inside the PC is an
>>> ISA PCI-20428W-1A;
>>> A.02.0x, WIN2000, FFT card inside the PC is an ISA PCI-20428W-1A or NI
>>> PCI-6111;
>>> A.03.0x, WINXP, FFT card inside the PC is an ISA PCI-20428W-1A or NI
>>> PCI-6111;
>>> A.04.0x, WinXP, Win7 32bit; FFT card inside the PC is a NI PCI-6111, the
>>> version can download from Keysight website;
>>> keysight 1.0.4.4, Win10 64 bit, this is the latest version, FFT card
>>> inside the PC is a NI PCI-6111; the version can download from Keysight
>>> website;
>>> now I have the ISA PCI-20428W-1A card (agilent said it is digitizer,
>>> fft) and adapter E5500-60003, and I finished the schematic drawing for
>>> the adapter, but I have no software (A.01.0x, A.02.0x, A.03.0x);
>>> I have NI PCI-6111 card, but I have no adapter (E5505-60001);
>>> so, someone can help me for the old software or take some inside picture
>>> for the adapter E5505-60001 ?
>>> --
>>> Regards/Scott
>>> Cell number & whatsapp: +1 808 308 7601
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