[time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 150, Issue 36

Bob Camp kb8tq at n1k.org
Tue Jan 17 10:17:19 EST 2017


Hi

At least at the “it stops working” level, Rb’s are not as sensitive to residual magnetic fields as what you 
describe on H-masers. The scrap guys routinely mangle the shielding around small Rb’s and the parts
still work when we receive them. 

On another level, the answer is (of course) yes. Any residual field  will have an effect on a magnetically tuned 
frequency source. That would definitely drive the material selection for anything in or near the physics package. 

Bob

> On Jan 17, 2017, at 9:53 AM, John Ponsonby <jebponsonby at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Re: Low Cost Temperature sensor
> The ZNI1000 sensor is based on nickel. As such it must be ferromagnetic. It would thus be absolutely unacceptable in an H-maser where every single small item inside the magnetic shields must be tested for residual ferromagnetism. If ferromagnetism is detectable the item is unacceptable. This applies to every small screw, thermistor, varactor etc. Unfortunately manufacturers of thermistors etc don't state what the wires are made of and it may vary between batches of the same nominal item. This is one of the problems with making H-masers. Though nominally made of copper and zinc, common brass often shows residual ferro magnetism because it is "recovered" metal and is  contaminated with iron. That brass must never be used in a magnetic instrument have been known for a very long time. I don't know off-hand if Caesium or Rubidium standards are as sensitive in this regard as H-masers. I guess I could find out from Vanier and Audoin.
> John P
> 
> 
> On 17 Jan 2017, at 14:14, time-nuts-request at febo.com wrote:
> 
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>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Re: Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000)
>>     (ziggy9+time-nuts at pumpkinbrook.com)
>>  2. Re: wifi with time sync (David)
>>  3. Re: wifi with time sync (David)
>>  4. Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000
>>     (Mark Sims)
>>  5. HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum (cdelect at juno.com)
>>  6. Re: HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum (paul swed)
>>  7. Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase (Ed Palmer)
>>  8. Re: Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase (Magnus Danielson)
>>  9. Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000)
>>     (Mark Sims)
>> 10. How to create a super Rb standard (Perry Sandeen)
>> 11. Low CostTemperature sensor (Perry Sandeen)
>> 12. Who has a hm H Maser? (Perry Sandeen)
>> 13. Who has a hm H Maser? (Perry Sandeen)
>> 14. TICC update? (Scott Newell)
>> 15. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Bill Hawkins)
>> 16. Re: Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000)
>>     (ziggy9+time-nuts at pumpkinbrook.com)
>> 17. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Jason Ball)
>> 18. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Tom Miller)
>> 19. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Charles Steinmetz)
>> 20. Re: How to create a super Rb standard (Bob Camp)
>> 21. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Scott Stobbe)
>> 22. Re: TICC update? (John Ackermann N8UR)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:17:32 -0500
>> From: ziggy9+time-nuts at pumpkinbrook.com
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum
>> 	9390-6000)
>> Message-ID: <de337749-1b3f-e367-06b0-03b0f9c463a7 at pumpkinbrook.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> 
>> I did see that one, but I am hoping I can procure something that isn't
>> from an overseas surplus scrapper. If I can't find anything else, then I
>> guess it's my only choice. Unfortunately, the Heol folks don't have
>> anything to offer here either. It's not a WNRO problem, as the week and
>> date are correct. Even if not, that doesn't affect the GPSDO, only the
>> timecode generation.
>> 
>> Thanks for replying and the eBay pointer.
>> 
>> On 01/16/2017 02:56 AM, Mike Cook wrote:
>>> If your friends don’t have a CM3 spare, there is one on eBay item 141712522709. It might be worth pulling the GPS part and testing it stand alone as there have been numerous week number roll over problems surfacing. If that is the case for yours then a replacement gets you nowhere. 
>>> 
>>>> Le 16 janv. 2017 à 07:32, ziggy9+time-nuts at pumpkinbrook.com a écrit :
>>>> 
>>>> I’ve had an intermittent problem with my ET6000/9390-6000 GPSDO where the reported error (the FRQ: display on the LCD) initially is OK (low E-12’s) and then creeps up to the limit (~500), and the tracking and locked LEDs go out. I’ve spent some time troubleshooting this and it seems confirmed that the GPS module has finally gone south. I’m asking if anyone has a similar module tucked away somewhere. 
>>>> 
>>>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other ‘conversions’ before. 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. »
>>> George Bernard Shaw
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:12:58 -0600
>> From: David <davidwhess at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] wifi with time sync
>> Message-ID: <q2aq7chk7dcr4ei0m1ut1rlo965aqta04g at 4ax.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> 
>> Modern systems are very aggressive about DVFS (dynamic voltage and
>> frequency scaling) so it would not surprise me at all.  I have run
>> across this problem on the timescale of one second even on 10 year old
>> desktop hardware.
>> 
>> On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:32:56 -0500, you wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> I’d be surprised if a laptop running on wall power and doing a variety of low level
>>> traffic every second is throttling the chip set. It *is* doing something weird and 
>>> that certainly is one candidate. I’m not quite as concerned with the *why* the bumps 
>>> occur (though I am curious). I’m more interested in the fact that they are really
>>> enormous (compared to other delays). How they do microsecond timing with them
>>> in the mix is the big question. 
>>> 
>>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:22:15 -0600
>> From: David <davidwhess at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] wifi with time sync
>> Message-ID: <rbaq7ctqvikmhrl9ae8d5sfp1k0eke5422 at 4ax.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>> 
>> Sonos and I guess their competitors do this by dropping WiFi
>> compatibility.  They exist on their own network in the same ISM band
>> so I wonder how well they coexist with WiFi.  Online reports say
>> poorly under crowded band conditions.
>> 
>> On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:50:05 -0500, you wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> The push behind this is whole house audio. These guys want to be able to set up WiFi
>>> speakers / mic's all through a home and get proper audio imaging in each room. They likely
>>> also want to use it to figure out which mic you are talking to using time of arrival. They very 
>>> much want to do this in real environments (300 WiFi nets in the building). Since they want to
>>> roll it out that way, it’s got to be cheap and fairly robust. They need their gizmo to work with 
>>> the infrastructure you already have.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:39:33 +0000
>> From: Mark Sims <holrum at hotmail.com>
>> To: "time-nuts at febo.com" <time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum
>> 	9390-6000
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<MWHPR1701MB1791AED591CD66611833A936CE7D0 at MWHPR1701MB1791.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
>> 	
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> 
>> I recently added code to Lady Heather to support up to 10 external com links (serial or TCPI/IP).  One is the receiver port,  one will be a TICC,  and two are "echo" ports.  One echo port echoes all the raw data sent by the receiver and the other does the same thing except the data is formatted as standard NMEA sentences.  
>> 
>> One could add the ability to echo out the messages that an SV6 sends and then any GPS receiver that works with Heather could emulate an SV6.   You might have to add code to send the proper messages out only when the Datum requests them.  That depends upon how the Datum firmware works.
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:58:09 -0800
>> From: <cdelect at juno.com>
>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
>> Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum
>> Message-ID: <AABNH4PCDABHWWX2 at smtpout51.dca.untd.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> I've been doing some work on testing some HP 5061A/B tubes
>> and came across something that's not making any sense!
>> The R11 and R12 values marked on the tubes for use with the 
>> new style A11 are supposed to reflect a parallel value
>> that is 10X larger than the thermistor reading.
>> This to agree with the ratio of the bridge resistors in the 
>> A11 module.
>> For instance a 3112A prefix tube shows values of 3.83K
>> and 42.2K. This gives a parallel value of 3.511K which when 
>> divided by 10 gives 351.1 Ohm. The value marked on the tube
>> was 352 Ohm. That all makes sense!
>> Now I have three 3232A prefix tubes and they all do not 
>> reflect this ratio.
>> For instance one has values of 51.1K and 5.11K which gives
>> 4.65K. This divided by ten gives 465 Ohms. However the 
>> Thermistor value marked on the tube is 915 Ohms!
>> I tested all three tubes and they come up to the proper
>> temperature with the thermistor value marked on the tube.
>> Did HP make a change to the A11 bridge resistor ratio, and
>> if so where did they document it!
>> If not and you used the R11 and R12 values you would 
>> seriously overheat the tube!
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Corby
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:07:19 -0500
>> From: paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<CAD2JfAh8Vq5crZfqoYrOiWHruj9CbCX9KOGN8tep_4hSm86e1Q at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> 
>> Corby thats a heck of a puzzle. I am trying to think about how you could
>> prove it. I have some thoughts that are not at all well formed. It comes
>> from my experiments on Frankenstein temp control.
>> 
>> If you could please tell me what you might expect the alternate bridge
>> resistors to be overall I will look through my various bits to see if there
>> is anything.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>> 
>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:58 PM, <cdelect at juno.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I've been doing some work on testing some HP 5061A/B tubes
>>> and came across something that's not making any sense!
>>> The R11 and R12 values marked on the tubes for use with the
>>> new style A11 are supposed to reflect a parallel value
>>> that is 10X larger than the thermistor reading.
>>> This to agree with the ratio of the bridge resistors in the
>>> A11 module.
>>> For instance a 3112A prefix tube shows values of 3.83K
>>> and 42.2K. This gives a parallel value of 3.511K which when
>>> divided by 10 gives 351.1 Ohm. The value marked on the tube
>>> was 352 Ohm. That all makes sense!
>>> Now I have three 3232A prefix tubes and they all do not
>>> reflect this ratio.
>>> For instance one has values of 51.1K and 5.11K which gives
>>> 4.65K. This divided by ten gives 465 Ohms. However the
>>> Thermistor value marked on the tube is 915 Ohms!
>>> I tested all three tubes and they come up to the proper
>>> temperature with the thermistor value marked on the tube.
>>> Did HP make a change to the A11 bridge resistor ratio, and
>>> if so where did they document it!
>>> If not and you used the R11 and R12 values you would
>>> seriously overheat the tube!
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> Corby
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 16:01:02 -0600
>> From: Ed Palmer <ed_palmer at sasktel.net>
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase
>> Message-ID: <587D429E.4080700 at sasktel.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>> 
>> I have a Fluke PM6681 counter that just has the basic oscillator.  I was 
>> thinking of upgrading it to the Rubidium timebase.  From the service 
>> manual, it appears to use an LPRO, but there's nothing obvious regarding 
>> heat sinking.  Does anyone have pictures of this installation or, at 
>> least, seen it?  Is there any heat sinking at all?
>> 
>> I realize the firmware won't report it as a PM6681R and there will be a 
>> few non-standard work-arounds required, as well as an auxiliary power 
>> supply (the original needs this as well), but I don't see any 
>> showstoppers here.  Does anyone have any warnings or advice?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Ed
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:42:31 +0100
>> From: Magnus Danielson <magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org>
>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
>> Cc: magnus at rubidium.se
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase
>> Message-ID: <871613e2-3c98-e0c5-6afc-98358abb497c at rubidium.dyndns.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>> 
>> Ed,
>> 
>> On 01/16/2017 11:01 PM, Ed Palmer wrote:
>>> I have a Fluke PM6681 counter that just has the basic oscillator.  I was
>>> thinking of upgrading it to the Rubidium timebase.  From the service
>>> manual, it appears to use an LPRO, but there's nothing obvious regarding
>>> heat sinking.  Does anyone have pictures of this installation or, at
>>> least, seen it?  Is there any heat sinking at all?
>>> 
>>> I realize the firmware won't report it as a PM6681R and there will be a
>>> few non-standard work-arounds required, as well as an auxiliary power
>>> supply (the original needs this as well), but I don't see any
>>> showstoppers here.  Does anyone have any warnings or advice?
>> 
>> Asked the former Fluke/Pendulum service engineer Stefan Ledberg, and 
>> here is his comments:
>> 
>> The built in Rubidium can use basically any source and have on earlier 
>> models used a Datum or Efratom LPRO-101 model (no heatsink), and later 
>> models used Spectratime LPFRS-01 special Heatsink and adapter from DSUB 
>> to LPRO-equivalent. PSU is added internally that is sharing PCB with the 
>> output amplifier for the additional 10Mhz output on the rear panel. The 
>> PSU and output is no longer in production and I doubt there are any left 
>> at the factory... I can make an inqury if really important, Internally 
>> 10Mhz is connected to a 2 pin header and Source is selected with a 
>> jumper. however as stated firmware will still claim std or ocxo 
>> timebase.  However my recommendation is to power a Rubidium timebase 
>> externally with off the shelf PSU and just feed the PM6681 on "Ext Ref 
>> in" this will accept most levels of Signal and no fuss needed.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Magnus
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 00:42:42 +0000
>> From: Mark Sims <holrum at hotmail.com>
>> To: "time-nuts at febo.com" <time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum
>> 	9390-6000)
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<MWHPR1701MB1791594F3990F671DBC20922CE7C0 at MWHPR1701MB1791.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
>> 	
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>> 
>> On the chip with the "MX" marking on it,  what f/w version does it show (usually v5.02 or v5.10)?  I have a couple of CM3's configured for TAIP output, but I have the programs for switching them to TSIP or NMEA.
>> 
>> -----------------------
>> 
>>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other ‘conversions’ before. 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:24:32 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>
>> To: "time-nuts at febo.com" <time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: [time-nuts] How to create a super Rb standard
>> Message-ID: <1075986583.4637453.1484623472900 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> 
>> 
>> List
>> It looks like their is as infinitely small chance of being able to get 5065.
>> So what can be done with the telco Rb's (mine are analog tuned) to wring the best possible performance from them? Sooper Duper power supplies, Peltier (sp) cooling modules?
>> Regards,
>> Perrier
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:33:14 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>
>> To: "time-nuts at febo.com" <time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
>> Message-ID: <942686340.374454.1484623994181 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> 
>> List,
>> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors.
>> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature sensor.
>> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K ohm sensors.
>> It's about $3 from Digi-Key. 
>> FWIW YMMY
>> Regards,
>> Perrier
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:16:06 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>
>> To: "time-nuts at febo.com" <time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Who has a hm H Maser?
>> Message-ID: <1306955300.4656088.1484622966841 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> 
>> List,
>> The discussion about building a H Maser has been fascinating however it appears that there will be a long time period before the project reaches fruition.
>> My questions for those that have a H Maser are:
>> 
>> Where and when did you get it and what was the cost?
>> 
>> Exactly what do you have to do to keep it operating?
>> 
>> Lastly where would one look to get a GOOD used H Maser and what would it cost (rough guess is fine)?
>> Regards,
>> Perrier
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:16:06 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>
>> To: "time-nuts at febo.com" <time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Who has a hm H Maser?
>> Message-ID: <1306955300.4656088.1484622966841 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> 
>> List,
>> The discussion about building a H Maser has been fascinating however it appears that there will be a long time period before the project reaches fruition.
>> My questions for those that have a H Maser are:
>> 
>> Where and when did you get it and what was the cost?
>> 
>> Exactly what do you have to do to keep it operating?
>> 
>> Lastly where would one look to get a GOOD used H Maser and what would it cost (rough guess is fine)?
>> Regards,
>> Perrier
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 22:07:57 -0600
>> From: Scott Newell <newell+timenuts at n5tnl.com>
>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
>> Subject: [time-nuts] TICC update?
>> Message-ID: <20170117040759.BC09064686 at n5tnl.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>> 
>> I see that my credit card has been charged. Is that a hint that the 
>> TICC project is moving along? Should I start gathering up cables and 
>> SMA adapters?
>> 
>> -- 
>> newell  N5TNL
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 15
>> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:16:29 -0600
>> From: "Bill Hawkins" <bill.iaxs at pobox.com>
>> To: "'Perry Sandeen'" <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>, "'Discussion of precise
>> 	time and frequency measurement'" <time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
>> Message-ID: <3062507E35F44012ADCBDA86FA7CA47E at system072>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Perrier,
>> 
>> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve.
>> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate as
>> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures
>> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog
>> converters.
>> 
>> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said
>> nothing about a platinum curve.
>> 
>> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum
>> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point.
>> 
>> Bill Hawkins
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry
>> Sandeen via time-nuts
>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM
>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
>> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
>> 
>> List,
>> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors.
>> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature
>> sensor.
>> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K
>> ohm sensors.
>> It's about $3 from Digi-Key.
>> FWIW YMMY
>> Regards,
>> Perrier
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 16
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 00:23:35 -0500
>> From: ziggy9+time-nuts at pumpkinbrook.com
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum
>> 	9390-6000)
>> Message-ID: <CCC05CBB-FFFB-4D06-BBF8-8986EFEFB2AC at pumpkinbrook.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> 
>> Due to the stickers, I don’t see anything with MX on it, but I presume you mean the ROM. It has 28655-01 and V5.00 on it. The other model number is 26889-81, the -x1 kind of implies that it’s TSIP, and from sniffing the GPS traffic in a prior exercise, I can confirm that it is. 
>> 
>>> On Jan 16, 2017, at 7:42 PM, Mark Sims <holrum at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On the chip with the "MX" marking on it,  what f/w version does it show (usually v5.02 or v5.10)?  I have a couple of CM3's configured for TAIP output, but I have the programs for switching them to TSIP or NMEA.
>>> 
>>> -----------------------
>>> 
>>>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other ‘conversions’ before. 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 17
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 17:11:41 +1100
>> From: Jason Ball <jason at ball.net>
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Cc: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<CAOGCNM5VMG1+9ainJGdteodN2TAdf7-p0dKm5AgHhqJzYuKAeA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> 
>> Even cheaper... Diiode as a cheap sensor ?
>> 
>> https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/using-a-simple-diode-as-a-ballpark-temperature-sensor
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Bill Hawkins <bill.iaxs at pobox.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Perrier,
>>> 
>>> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve.
>>> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate as
>>> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures
>>> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog
>>> converters.
>>> 
>>> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said
>>> nothing about a platinum curve.
>>> 
>>> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum
>>> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point.
>>> 
>>> Bill Hawkins
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry
>>> Sandeen via time-nuts
>>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM
>>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
>>> 
>>> List,
>>> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors.
>>> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature
>>> sensor.
>>> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K
>>> ohm sensors.
>>> It's about $3 from Digi-Key.
>>> FWIW YMMY
>>> Regards,
>>> Perrier
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> --
>> Teach your kids Science, or somebody else will :/
>> 
>> jason at ball.net
>> vk2vjb at google.com <vk2flnx at google.com>
>> callsign: vk2vjb
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 18
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 01:52:15 -0500
>> From: "Tom Miller" <tmiller11147 at verizon.net>
>> To: <jason at ball.net>,	"Discussion of precise time and frequency
>> 	measurement" <time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
>> Message-ID: <8CF6E16948B44D838962535D0F36C2E5 at FamilyHP>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8;
>> 	reply-type=original
>> 
>> That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jason Ball" <jason at ball.net>
>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
>> <time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Cc: "Perry Sandeen" <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 1:11 AM
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
>> 
>> 
>>> Even cheaper... Diiode as a cheap sensor ?
>>> 
>>> https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/using-a-simple-diode-as-a-ballpark-temperature-sensor
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Bill Hawkins <bill.iaxs at pobox.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Perrier,
>>>> 
>>>> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve.
>>>> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate as
>>>> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures
>>>> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog
>>>> converters.
>>>> 
>>>> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said
>>>> nothing about a platinum curve.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum
>>>> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point.
>>>> 
>>>> Bill Hawkins
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry
>>>> Sandeen via time-nuts
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM
>>>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
>>>> 
>>>> List,
>>>> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors.
>>>> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature
>>>> sensor.
>>>> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K
>>>> ohm sensors.
>>>> It's about $3 from Digi-Key.
>>>> FWIW YMMY
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Perrier
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
>>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> --
>>> Teach your kids Science, or somebody else will :/
>>> 
>>> jason at ball.net
>>> vk2vjb at google.com <vk2flnx at google.com>
>>> callsign: vk2vjb
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 19
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 04:17:25 -0500
>> From: Charles Steinmetz <csteinmetz at yandex.com>
>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
>> Message-ID: <587DE125.9070505 at yandex.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>> 
>> Tom wrote:
>> 
>>> That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is?
>> 
>> Well, the author says the reverse current of a diode is "directly" 
>> proportional to temperature.  This could suggest that he means the 
>> relationship is linear (the relationship is actually exponential with 
>> absolute temperature).  But that's not really an *error* -- just sloppy. 
>> "Direct" does not necessarily imply "linear."  An exponential 
>> relationship is "direct" in the sense that it is what mathematicians 
>> call "injective" (every temperature corresponds to exactly one value of 
>> reverse current).
>> 
>> Then, in discussing the LM95235, he says that it can use the 
>> "collector-emitter junction diode" of a transistor as the sense element. 
>> Of course, a bipolar transistor has no collector-emitter junction. 
>> His diagram correctly shows a diode-connected NPN operating in the 
>> active region (forward biased, not reverse biased as the rest of his 
>> article discusses) as the sensor for the LM95235.
>> 
>> Are any of these what you had in mind, or is there more?
>> 
>> Charles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 20
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 08:20:23 -0500
>> From: Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org>
>> To: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>, Discussion of precise time
>> 	and frequency measurement <time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How to create a super Rb standard
>> Message-ID: <D04DA9BA-375D-4258-A7DE-C5329CA81BE0 at n1k.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> Since the physics package in the small Rb’s is different than the stuff in the large units, 
>> you have some basic limits on what you can do to improve them. The main things people
>> have done are to modify them to turn off the temperature compensation and replace it
>> with some sort of precision controlled thermal enclosure. Pressure compensation is a good
>> idea on any of these parts (large or small). How much your particular unit benefits is a 
>> “that depends” sort of thing.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Jan 16, 2017, at 10:24 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts <time-nuts at febo.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> List
>>> It looks like their is as infinitely small chance of being able to get 5065.
>>> So what can be done with the telco Rb's (mine are analog tuned) to wring the best possible performance from them? Sooper Duper power supplies, Peltier (sp) cooling modules?
>>> Regards,
>>> Perrier
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 21
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 14:10:12 +0000
>> From: Scott Stobbe <scott.j.stobbe at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<CALg-KtMYS4eNfa0Zf_41M50zxi75+GLbD+SkZUbNBa9+7jUDrQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> 
>> Thermometry based on Diode leakage current wouldn't be impossible I
>> suppose, you might loose some hair in the process.
>> 
>> The signal levels on the opamp are goofed too.
>> 
>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:19 AM Charles Steinmetz <csteinmetz at yandex.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Tom wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Well, the author says the reverse current of a diode is "directly"
>>> 
>>> proportional to temperature.  This could suggest that he means the
>>> 
>>> relationship is linear (the relationship is actually exponential with
>>> 
>>> absolute temperature).  But that's not really an *error* -- just sloppy.
>>> 
>>> "Direct" does not necessarily imply "linear."  An exponential
>>> 
>>> relationship is "direct" in the sense that it is what mathematicians
>>> 
>>> call "injective" (every temperature corresponds to exactly one value of
>>> 
>>> reverse current).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Then, in discussing the LM95235, he says that it can use the
>>> 
>>> "collector-emitter junction diode" of a transistor as the sense element.
>>> 
>>> Of course, a bipolar transistor has no collector-emitter junction.
>>> 
>>> His diagram correctly shows a diode-connected NPN operating in the
>>> 
>>> active region (forward biased, not reverse biased as the rest of his
>>> 
>>> article discusses) as the sensor for the LM95235.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Are any of these what you had in mind, or is there more?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Charles
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> 
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> 
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 22
>> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 08:14:46 -0600
>> From: John Ackermann N8UR <jra at febo.com>
>> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>> 	<time-nuts at febo.com>
>> Cc: time-nuts at febo.com
>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TICC update?
>> Message-ID: <1eb0a119-dc94-4117-8842-73fe1c166ce7 at typeapp.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> 
>> ⁣Hi Scott --
>> 
>> We received the first-unit sample a couple of weeks ago and it successfully passed all tests, so we gave the go-ahead to do the production build.
>> 
>> We've also sent the Contract Manufacturer the final software versions to be loaded to the Arduino as well as a set of test oscillators for unit testing.  (The production code is in master at https://github.com/TAPR/TICC)
>> 
>> My project for this coming weekend is to get the user documentation ready; it's also at GitHub.
>> 
>> I don't know precisely where the CM is in the process right now, but we're still looking for delivery to TAPR by early February.
>> 
>> You can still order:  http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> ----
>> 
>> On Jan 16, 2017, 10:17 PM, at 10:17 PM, Scott Newell <newell+timenuts at n5tnl.com> wrote:
>>> I see that my credit card has been charged. Is that a hint that the 
>>> TICC project is moving along? Should I start gathering up cables and 
>>> SMA adapters?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> newell  N5TNL
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list
>> time-nuts at febo.com
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 150, Issue 36
>> ******************************************
> 
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