[time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 150, Issue 36

Scott Stobbe scott.j.stobbe at gmail.com
Tue Jan 17 11:39:50 EST 2017


As an aside, some materials can change their magnetic properties after cold
working/forming like stainless steel for example.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> At least at the “it stops working” level, Rb’s are not as sensitive to
> residual magnetic fields as what you
> describe on H-masers. The scrap guys routinely mangle the shielding around
> small Rb’s and the parts
> still work when we receive them.
>
> On another level, the answer is (of course) yes. Any residual field  will
> have an effect on a magnetically tuned
> frequency source. That would definitely drive the material selection for
> anything in or near the physics package.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Jan 17, 2017, at 9:53 AM, John Ponsonby <jebponsonby at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Re: Low Cost Temperature sensor
> > The ZNI1000 sensor is based on nickel. As such it must be ferromagnetic.
> It would thus be absolutely unacceptable in an H-maser where every single
> small item inside the magnetic shields must be tested for residual
> ferromagnetism. If ferromagnetism is detectable the item is unacceptable.
> This applies to every small screw, thermistor, varactor etc. Unfortunately
> manufacturers of thermistors etc don't state what the wires are made of and
> it may vary between batches of the same nominal item. This is one of the
> problems with making H-masers. Though nominally made of copper and zinc,
> common brass often shows residual ferro magnetism because it is "recovered"
> metal and is  contaminated with iron. That brass must never be used in a
> magnetic instrument have been known for a very long time. I don't know
> off-hand if Caesium or Rubidium standards are as sensitive in this regard
> as H-masers. I guess I could find out from Vanier and Audoin.
> > John P
> >
> >
> > On 17 Jan 2017, at 14:14, time-nuts-request at febo.com wrote:
> >
> >> Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to
> >>      time-nuts at febo.com
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>      https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>      time-nuts-request at febo.com
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>      time-nuts-owner at febo.com
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of time-nuts digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>  1. Re: Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000)
> >>     (ziggy9+time-nuts at pumpkinbrook.com)
> >>  2. Re: wifi with time sync (David)
> >>  3. Re: wifi with time sync (David)
> >>  4. Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000
> >>     (Mark Sims)
> >>  5. HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum (cdelect at juno.com)
> >>  6. Re: HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum (paul swed)
> >>  7. Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase (Ed Palmer)
> >>  8. Re: Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase (Magnus Danielson)
> >>  9. Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000)
> >>     (Mark Sims)
> >> 10. How to create a super Rb standard (Perry Sandeen)
> >> 11. Low CostTemperature sensor (Perry Sandeen)
> >> 12. Who has a hm H Maser? (Perry Sandeen)
> >> 13. Who has a hm H Maser? (Perry Sandeen)
> >> 14. TICC update? (Scott Newell)
> >> 15. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Bill Hawkins)
> >> 16. Re: Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000)
> >>     (ziggy9+time-nuts at pumpkinbrook.com)
> >> 17. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Jason Ball)
> >> 18. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Tom Miller)
> >> 19. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Charles Steinmetz)
> >> 20. Re: How to create a super Rb standard (Bob Camp)
> >> 21. Re: Low CostTemperature sensor (Scott Stobbe)
> >> 22. Re: TICC update? (John Ackermann N8UR)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:17:32 -0500
> >> From: ziggy9+time-nuts at pumpkinbrook.com
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >>      <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum
> >>      9390-6000)
> >> Message-ID: <de337749-1b3f-e367-06b0-03b0f9c463a7 at pumpkinbrook.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >>
> >> I did see that one, but I am hoping I can procure something that isn't
> >> from an overseas surplus scrapper. If I can't find anything else, then I
> >> guess it's my only choice. Unfortunately, the Heol folks don't have
> >> anything to offer here either. It's not a WNRO problem, as the week and
> >> date are correct. Even if not, that doesn't affect the GPSDO, only the
> >> timecode generation.
> >>
> >> Thanks for replying and the eBay pointer.
> >>
> >> On 01/16/2017 02:56 AM, Mike Cook wrote:
> >>> If your friends don’t have a CM3 spare, there is one on eBay item
> 141712522709. It might be worth pulling the GPS part and testing it stand
> alone as there have been numerous week number roll over problems surfacing.
> If that is the case for yours then a replacement gets you nowhere.
> >>>
> >>>> Le 16 janv. 2017 à 07:32, ziggy9+time-nuts at pumpkinbrook.com a écrit :
> >>>>
> >>>> I’ve had an intermittent problem with my ET6000/9390-6000 GPSDO where
> the reported error (the FRQ: display on the LCD) initially is OK (low
> E-12’s) and then creeps up to the limit (~500), and the tracking and locked
> LEDs go out. I’ve spent some time troubleshooting this and it seems
> confirmed that the GPS module has finally gone south. I’m asking if anyone
> has a similar module tucked away somewhere.
> >>>>
> >>>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the
> 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP
> part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal
> of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other
> ‘conversions’ before.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>> "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by
> those who have not got it. »
> >>> George Bernard Shaw
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:12:58 -0600
> >> From: David <davidwhess at gmail.com>
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >>      <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] wifi with time sync
> >> Message-ID: <q2aq7chk7dcr4ei0m1ut1rlo965aqta04g at 4ax.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >>
> >> Modern systems are very aggressive about DVFS (dynamic voltage and
> >> frequency scaling) so it would not surprise me at all.  I have run
> >> across this problem on the timescale of one second even on 10 year old
> >> desktop hardware.
> >>
> >> On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:32:56 -0500, you wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> I’d be surprised if a laptop running on wall power and doing a variety
> of low level
> >>> traffic every second is throttling the chip set. It *is* doing
> something weird and
> >>> that certainly is one candidate. I’m not quite as concerned with the
> *why* the bumps
> >>> occur (though I am curious). I’m more interested in the fact that they
> are really
> >>> enormous (compared to other delays). How they do microsecond timing
> with them
> >>> in the mix is the big question.
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 14:22:15 -0600
> >> From: David <davidwhess at gmail.com>
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >>      <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] wifi with time sync
> >> Message-ID: <rbaq7ctqvikmhrl9ae8d5sfp1k0eke5422 at 4ax.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >>
> >> Sonos and I guess their competitors do this by dropping WiFi
> >> compatibility.  They exist on their own network in the same ISM band
> >> so I wonder how well they coexist with WiFi.  Online reports say
> >> poorly under crowded band conditions.
> >>
> >> On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:50:05 -0500, you wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> The push behind this is whole house audio. These guys want to be able
> to set up WiFi
> >>> speakers / mic's all through a home and get proper audio imaging in
> each room. They likely
> >>> also want to use it to figure out which mic you are talking to using
> time of arrival. They very
> >>> much want to do this in real environments (300 WiFi nets in the
> building). Since they want to
> >>> roll it out that way, it’s got to be cheap and fairly robust. They
> need their gizmo to work with
> >>> the infrastructure you already have.
> >>>
> >>> Bob
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 4
> >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 20:39:33 +0000
> >> From: Mark Sims <holrum at hotmail.com>
> >> To: "time-nuts at febo.com" <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum
> >>      9390-6000
> >> Message-ID:
> >>      <MWHPR1701MB1791AED591CD66611833A936CE7D0 at MWHPR1701MB1791.
> namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
> >>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >>
> >> I recently added code to Lady Heather to support up to 10 external com
> links (serial or TCPI/IP).  One is the receiver port,  one will be a TICC,
> and two are "echo" ports.  One echo port echoes all the raw data sent by
> the receiver and the other does the same thing except the data is formatted
> as standard NMEA sentences.
> >>
> >> One could add the ability to echo out the messages that an SV6 sends
> and then any GPS receiver that works with Heather could emulate an SV6.
>  You might have to add code to send the proper messages out only when the
> Datum requests them.  That depends upon how the Datum firmware works.
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 5
> >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 12:58:09 -0800
> >> From: <cdelect at juno.com>
> >> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> >> Subject: [time-nuts] HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum
> >> Message-ID: <AABNH4PCDABHWWX2 at smtpout51.dca.untd.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >>
> >> I've been doing some work on testing some HP 5061A/B tubes
> >> and came across something that's not making any sense!
> >> The R11 and R12 values marked on the tubes for use with the
> >> new style A11 are supposed to reflect a parallel value
> >> that is 10X larger than the thermistor reading.
> >> This to agree with the ratio of the bridge resistors in the
> >> A11 module.
> >> For instance a 3112A prefix tube shows values of 3.83K
> >> and 42.2K. This gives a parallel value of 3.511K which when
> >> divided by 10 gives 351.1 Ohm. The value marked on the tube
> >> was 352 Ohm. That all makes sense!
> >> Now I have three 3232A prefix tubes and they all do not
> >> reflect this ratio.
> >> For instance one has values of 51.1K and 5.11K which gives
> >> 4.65K. This divided by ten gives 465 Ohms. However the
> >> Thermistor value marked on the tube is 915 Ohms!
> >> I tested all three tubes and they come up to the proper
> >> temperature with the thermistor value marked on the tube.
> >> Did HP make a change to the A11 bridge resistor ratio, and
> >> if so where did they document it!
> >> If not and you used the R11 and R12 values you would
> >> seriously overheat the tube!
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Corby
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 6
> >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:07:19 -0500
> >> From: paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com>
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >>      <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum
> >> Message-ID:
> >>      <CAD2JfAh8Vq5crZfqoYrOiWHruj9CbCX9KOGN8tep_4hSm86e1Q at mail.
> gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >>
> >> Corby thats a heck of a puzzle. I am trying to think about how you could
> >> prove it. I have some thoughts that are not at all well formed. It comes
> >> from my experiments on Frankenstein temp control.
> >>
> >> If you could please tell me what you might expect the alternate bridge
> >> resistors to be overall I will look through my various bits to see if
> there
> >> is anything.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Paul
> >> WB8TSL
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:58 PM, <cdelect at juno.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've been doing some work on testing some HP 5061A/B tubes
> >>> and came across something that's not making any sense!
> >>> The R11 and R12 values marked on the tubes for use with the
> >>> new style A11 are supposed to reflect a parallel value
> >>> that is 10X larger than the thermistor reading.
> >>> This to agree with the ratio of the bridge resistors in the
> >>> A11 module.
> >>> For instance a 3112A prefix tube shows values of 3.83K
> >>> and 42.2K. This gives a parallel value of 3.511K which when
> >>> divided by 10 gives 351.1 Ohm. The value marked on the tube
> >>> was 352 Ohm. That all makes sense!
> >>> Now I have three 3232A prefix tubes and they all do not
> >>> reflect this ratio.
> >>> For instance one has values of 51.1K and 5.11K which gives
> >>> 4.65K. This divided by ten gives 465 Ohms. However the
> >>> Thermistor value marked on the tube is 915 Ohms!
> >>> I tested all three tubes and they come up to the proper
> >>> temperature with the thermistor value marked on the tube.
> >>> Did HP make a change to the A11 bridge resistor ratio, and
> >>> if so where did they document it!
> >>> If not and you used the R11 and R12 values you would
> >>> seriously overheat the tube!
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> Corby
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> >>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 7
> >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 16:01:02 -0600
> >> From: Ed Palmer <ed_palmer at sasktel.net>
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >>      <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase
> >> Message-ID: <587D429E.4080700 at sasktel.net>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >>
> >> I have a Fluke PM6681 counter that just has the basic oscillator.  I was
> >> thinking of upgrading it to the Rubidium timebase.  From the service
> >> manual, it appears to use an LPRO, but there's nothing obvious regarding
> >> heat sinking.  Does anyone have pictures of this installation or, at
> >> least, seen it?  Is there any heat sinking at all?
> >>
> >> I realize the firmware won't report it as a PM6681R and there will be a
> >> few non-standard work-arounds required, as well as an auxiliary power
> >> supply (the original needs this as well), but I don't see any
> >> showstoppers here.  Does anyone have any warnings or advice?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Ed
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 8
> >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:42:31 +0100
> >> From: Magnus Danielson <magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org>
> >> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> >> Cc: magnus at rubidium.se
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase
> >> Message-ID: <871613e2-3c98-e0c5-6afc-98358abb497c at rubidium.dyndns.org>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Ed,
> >>
> >> On 01/16/2017 11:01 PM, Ed Palmer wrote:
> >>> I have a Fluke PM6681 counter that just has the basic oscillator.  I
> was
> >>> thinking of upgrading it to the Rubidium timebase.  From the service
> >>> manual, it appears to use an LPRO, but there's nothing obvious
> regarding
> >>> heat sinking.  Does anyone have pictures of this installation or, at
> >>> least, seen it?  Is there any heat sinking at all?
> >>>
> >>> I realize the firmware won't report it as a PM6681R and there will be a
> >>> few non-standard work-arounds required, as well as an auxiliary power
> >>> supply (the original needs this as well), but I don't see any
> >>> showstoppers here.  Does anyone have any warnings or advice?
> >>
> >> Asked the former Fluke/Pendulum service engineer Stefan Ledberg, and
> >> here is his comments:
> >>
> >> The built in Rubidium can use basically any source and have on earlier
> >> models used a Datum or Efratom LPRO-101 model (no heatsink), and later
> >> models used Spectratime LPFRS-01 special Heatsink and adapter from DSUB
> >> to LPRO-equivalent. PSU is added internally that is sharing PCB with the
> >> output amplifier for the additional 10Mhz output on the rear panel. The
> >> PSU and output is no longer in production and I doubt there are any left
> >> at the factory... I can make an inqury if really important, Internally
> >> 10Mhz is connected to a 2 pin header and Source is selected with a
> >> jumper. however as stated firmware will still claim std or ocxo
> >> timebase.  However my recommendation is to power a Rubidium timebase
> >> externally with off the shelf PSU and just feed the PM6681 on "Ext Ref
> >> in" this will accept most levels of Signal and no fuss needed.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Magnus
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 9
> >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 00:42:42 +0000
> >> From: Mark Sims <holrum at hotmail.com>
> >> To: "time-nuts at febo.com" <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum
> >>      9390-6000)
> >> Message-ID:
> >>      <MWHPR1701MB1791594F3990F671DBC20922CE7C0 at MWHPR1701MB1791.
> namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
> >>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> >>
> >> On the chip with the "MX" marking on it,  what f/w version does it show
> (usually v5.02 or v5.10)?  I have a couple of CM3's configured for TAIP
> output, but I have the programs for switching them to TSIP or NMEA.
> >>
> >> -----------------------
> >>
> >>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the
> 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP
> part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal
> of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other
> ‘conversions’ before.
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 10
> >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:24:32 +0000 (UTC)
> >> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>
> >> To: "time-nuts at febo.com" <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: [time-nuts] How to create a super Rb standard
> >> Message-ID: <1075986583.4637453.1484623472900 at mail.yahoo.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >>
> >>
> >> List
> >> It looks like their is as infinitely small chance of being able to get
> 5065.
> >> So what can be done with the telco Rb's (mine are analog tuned) to
> wring the best possible performance from them? Sooper Duper power supplies,
> Peltier (sp) cooling modules?
> >> Regards,
> >> Perrier
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 11
> >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:33:14 +0000 (UTC)
> >> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>
> >> To: "time-nuts at febo.com" <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
> >> Message-ID: <942686340.374454.1484623994181 at mail.yahoo.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >>
> >> List,
> >> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors.
> >> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature
> sensor.
> >> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K
> ohm sensors.
> >> It's about $3 from Digi-Key.
> >> FWIW YMMY
> >> Regards,
> >> Perrier
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 12
> >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:16:06 +0000 (UTC)
> >> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>
> >> To: "time-nuts at febo.com" <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Who has a hm H Maser?
> >> Message-ID: <1306955300.4656088.1484622966841 at mail.yahoo.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >>
> >> List,
> >> The discussion about building a H Maser has been fascinating however it
> appears that there will be a long time period before the project reaches
> fruition.
> >> My questions for those that have a H Maser are:
> >>
> >> Where and when did you get it and what was the cost?
> >>
> >> Exactly what do you have to do to keep it operating?
> >>
> >> Lastly where would one look to get a GOOD used H Maser and what would
> it cost (rough guess is fine)?
> >> Regards,
> >> Perrier
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 13
> >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 03:16:06 +0000 (UTC)
> >> From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>
> >> To: "time-nuts at febo.com" <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Who has a hm H Maser?
> >> Message-ID: <1306955300.4656088.1484622966841 at mail.yahoo.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >>
> >> List,
> >> The discussion about building a H Maser has been fascinating however it
> appears that there will be a long time period before the project reaches
> fruition.
> >> My questions for those that have a H Maser are:
> >>
> >> Where and when did you get it and what was the cost?
> >>
> >> Exactly what do you have to do to keep it operating?
> >>
> >> Lastly where would one look to get a GOOD used H Maser and what would
> it cost (rough guess is fine)?
> >> Regards,
> >> Perrier
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 14
> >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 22:07:57 -0600
> >> From: Scott Newell <newell+timenuts at n5tnl.com>
> >> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> >> Subject: [time-nuts] TICC update?
> >> Message-ID: <20170117040759.BC09064686 at n5tnl.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> >>
> >> I see that my credit card has been charged. Is that a hint that the
> >> TICC project is moving along? Should I start gathering up cables and
> >> SMA adapters?
> >>
> >> --
> >> newell  N5TNL
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 15
> >> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:16:29 -0600
> >> From: "Bill Hawkins" <bill.iaxs at pobox.com>
> >> To: "'Perry Sandeen'" <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>, "'Discussion of precise
> >>      time and frequency measurement'" <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
> >> Message-ID: <3062507E35F44012ADCBDA86FA7CA47E at system072>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Perrier,
> >>
> >> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve.
> >> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate as
> >> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures
> >> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog
> >> converters.
> >>
> >> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said
> >> nothing about a platinum curve.
> >>
> >> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum
> >> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point.
> >>
> >> Bill Hawkins
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry
> >> Sandeen via time-nuts
> >> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM
> >> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> >> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
> >>
> >> List,
> >> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors.
> >> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature
> >> sensor.
> >> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K
> >> ohm sensors.
> >> It's about $3 from Digi-Key.
> >> FWIW YMMY
> >> Regards,
> >> Perrier
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 16
> >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 00:23:35 -0500
> >> From: ziggy9+time-nuts at pumpkinbrook.com
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >>      <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum
> >>      9390-6000)
> >> Message-ID: <CCC05CBB-FFFB-4D06-BBF8-8986EFEFB2AC at pumpkinbrook.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >>
> >> Due to the stickers, I don’t see anything with MX on it, but I presume
> you mean the ROM. It has 28655-01 and V5.00 on it. The other model number
> is 26889-81, the -x1 kind of implies that it’s TSIP, and from sniffing the
> GPS traffic in a prior exercise, I can confirm that it is.
> >>
> >>> On Jan 16, 2017, at 7:42 PM, Mark Sims <holrum at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On the chip with the "MX" marking on it,  what f/w version does it
> show (usually v5.02 or v5.10)?  I have a couple of CM3's configured for
> TAIP output, but I have the programs for switching them to TSIP or NMEA.
> >>>
> >>> -----------------------
> >>>
> >>>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the
> 25040 board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP
> part. Can anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal
> of course, but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other
> ‘conversions’ before.
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 17
> >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 17:11:41 +1100
> >> From: Jason Ball <jason at ball.net>
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >>      <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Cc: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
> >> Message-ID:
> >>      <CAOGCNM5VMG1+9ainJGdteodN2TAdf7-p0dKm5AgHhqJzYuKAeA at mail.
> gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >>
> >> Even cheaper... Diiode as a cheap sensor ?
> >>
> >> https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/
> using-a-simple-diode-as-a-ballpark-temperature-sensor
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Bill Hawkins <bill.iaxs at pobox.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Perrier,
> >>>
> >>> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve.
> >>> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate
> as
> >>> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures
> >>> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog
> >>> converters.
> >>>
> >>> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said
> >>> nothing about a platinum curve.
> >>>
> >>> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum
> >>> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point.
> >>>
> >>> Bill Hawkins
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry
> >>> Sandeen via time-nuts
> >>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM
> >>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> >>> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
> >>>
> >>> List,
> >>> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors.
> >>> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature
> >>> sensor.
> >>> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K
> >>> ohm sensors.
> >>> It's about $3 from Digi-Key.
> >>> FWIW YMMY
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Perrier
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> >>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> --
> >> Teach your kids Science, or somebody else will :/
> >>
> >> jason at ball.net
> >> vk2vjb at google.com <vk2flnx at google.com>
> >> callsign: vk2vjb
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 18
> >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 01:52:15 -0500
> >> From: "Tom Miller" <tmiller11147 at verizon.net>
> >> To: <jason at ball.net>,        "Discussion of precise time and frequency
> >>      measurement" <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
> >> Message-ID: <8CF6E16948B44D838962535D0F36C2E5 at FamilyHP>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8;
> >>      reply-type=original
> >>
> >> That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jason Ball" <jason at ball.net>
> >> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
> >> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Cc: "Perry Sandeen" <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 1:11 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
> >>
> >>
> >>> Even cheaper... Diiode as a cheap sensor ?
> >>>
> >>> https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/
> using-a-simple-diode-as-a-ballpark-temperature-sensor
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Bill Hawkins <bill.iaxs at pobox.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Perrier,
> >>>>
> >>>> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve.
> >>>> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate
> as
> >>>> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures
> >>>> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog
> >>>> converters.
> >>>>
> >>>> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said
> >>>> nothing about a platinum curve.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum
> >>>> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bill Hawkins
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of
> Perry
> >>>> Sandeen via time-nuts
> >>>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM
> >>>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> >>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
> >>>>
> >>>> List,
> >>>> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors.
> >>>> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature
> >>>> sensor.
> >>>> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt
> 1K
> >>>> ohm sensors.
> >>>> It's about $3 from Digi-Key.
> >>>> FWIW YMMY
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Perrier
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> --
> >>> Teach your kids Science, or somebody else will :/
> >>>
> >>> jason at ball.net
> >>> vk2vjb at google.com <vk2flnx at google.com>
> >>> callsign: vk2vjb
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to
> >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 19
> >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 04:17:25 -0500
> >> From: Charles Steinmetz <csteinmetz at yandex.com>
> >> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
> >> Message-ID: <587DE125.9070505 at yandex.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Tom wrote:
> >>
> >>> That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is?
> >>
> >> Well, the author says the reverse current of a diode is "directly"
> >> proportional to temperature.  This could suggest that he means the
> >> relationship is linear (the relationship is actually exponential with
> >> absolute temperature).  But that's not really an *error* -- just sloppy.
> >> "Direct" does not necessarily imply "linear."  An exponential
> >> relationship is "direct" in the sense that it is what mathematicians
> >> call "injective" (every temperature corresponds to exactly one value of
> >> reverse current).
> >>
> >> Then, in discussing the LM95235, he says that it can use the
> >> "collector-emitter junction diode" of a transistor as the sense element.
> >> Of course, a bipolar transistor has no collector-emitter junction.
> >> His diagram correctly shows a diode-connected NPN operating in the
> >> active region (forward biased, not reverse biased as the rest of his
> >> article discusses) as the sensor for the LM95235.
> >>
> >> Are any of these what you had in mind, or is there more?
> >>
> >> Charles
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 20
> >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 08:20:23 -0500
> >> From: Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org>
> >> To: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>, Discussion of precise time
> >>      and frequency measurement <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How to create a super Rb standard
> >> Message-ID: <D04DA9BA-375D-4258-A7DE-C5329CA81BE0 at n1k.org>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> Since the physics package in the small Rb’s is different than the stuff
> in the large units,
> >> you have some basic limits on what you can do to improve them. The main
> things people
> >> have done are to modify them to turn off the temperature compensation
> and replace it
> >> with some sort of precision controlled thermal enclosure. Pressure
> compensation is a good
> >> idea on any of these parts (large or small). How much your particular
> unit benefits is a
> >> “that depends” sort of thing.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>> On Jan 16, 2017, at 10:24 PM, Perry Sandeen via time-nuts <
> time-nuts at febo.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> List
> >>> It looks like their is as infinitely small chance of being able to get
> 5065.
> >>> So what can be done with the telco Rb's (mine are analog tuned) to
> wring the best possible performance from them? Sooper Duper power supplies,
> Peltier (sp) cooling modules?
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Perrier
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 21
> >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 14:10:12 +0000
> >> From: Scott Stobbe <scott.j.stobbe at gmail.com>
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >>      <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
> >> Message-ID:
> >>      <CALg-KtMYS4eNfa0Zf_41M50zxi75+GLbD+SkZUbNBa9+
> 7jUDrQ at mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >>
> >> Thermometry based on Diode leakage current wouldn't be impossible I
> >> suppose, you might loose some hair in the process.
> >>
> >> The signal levels on the opamp are goofed too.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:19 AM Charles Steinmetz <
> csteinmetz at yandex.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Tom wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Well, the author says the reverse current of a diode is "directly"
> >>>
> >>> proportional to temperature.  This could suggest that he means the
> >>>
> >>> relationship is linear (the relationship is actually exponential with
> >>>
> >>> absolute temperature).  But that's not really an *error* -- just
> sloppy.
> >>>
> >>> "Direct" does not necessarily imply "linear."  An exponential
> >>>
> >>> relationship is "direct" in the sense that it is what mathematicians
> >>>
> >>> call "injective" (every temperature corresponds to exactly one value of
> >>>
> >>> reverse current).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Then, in discussing the LM95235, he says that it can use the
> >>>
> >>> "collector-emitter junction diode" of a transistor as the sense
> element.
> >>>
> >>> Of course, a bipolar transistor has no collector-emitter junction.
> >>>
> >>> His diagram correctly shows a diode-connected NPN operating in the
> >>>
> >>> active region (forward biased, not reverse biased as the rest of his
> >>>
> >>> article discusses) as the sensor for the LM95235.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Are any of these what you had in mind, or is there more?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Charles
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >>>
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to
> >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>>
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 22
> >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 08:14:46 -0600
> >> From: John Ackermann N8UR <jra at febo.com>
> >> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> >>      <time-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Cc: time-nuts at febo.com
> >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] TICC update?
> >> Message-ID: <1eb0a119-dc94-4117-8842-73fe1c166ce7 at typeapp.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >>
> >> ⁣Hi Scott --
> >>
> >> We received the first-unit sample a couple of weeks ago and it
> successfully passed all tests, so we gave the go-ahead to do the production
> build.
> >>
> >> We've also sent the Contract Manufacturer the final software versions
> to be loaded to the Arduino as well as a set of test oscillators for unit
> testing.  (The production code is in master at
> https://github.com/TAPR/TICC)
> >>
> >> My project for this coming weekend is to get the user documentation
> ready; it's also at GitHub.
> >>
> >> I don't know precisely where the CM is in the process right now, but
> we're still looking for delivery to TAPR by early February.
> >>
> >> You can still order:  http://tapr.org/kits_ticc.html
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >> ----
> >>
> >> On Jan 16, 2017, 10:17 PM, at 10:17 PM, Scott Newell <
> newell+timenuts at n5tnl.com> wrote:
> >>> I see that my credit card has been charged. Is that a hint that the
> >>> TICC project is moving along? Should I start gathering up cables and
> >>> SMA adapters?
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> newell  N5TNL
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >>> To unsubscribe, go to
> >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Subject: Digest Footer
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> time-nuts mailing list
> >> time-nuts at febo.com
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 150, Issue 36
> >> ******************************************
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>


More information about the time-nuts mailing list